Michigan Short Track Racing Club: lets start an new mod series - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

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lets start an new mod series

#1 User is offline   racer65 Icon

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:34 PM

what will happen if all the mod drive get together an form an new series that will pay more, more laps, 10 inch slick tires, any body style,2400 lbs
any engine , an travle the tri states, an canada...

will any one be instered...
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#2 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 08:14 PM

We tried it once before, Thunder Mods. Same old thing 10-12 guys that tried 50-60 that B*^%.
But if you start something let me know.
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#3 User is offline   mod4 Icon

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 08:47 PM

Any 10" slick tire will will coast you even more money!!! The 8" 970 tire keeps all on a even playing field, the wider the tire the more horsepower you can use!! And that will be big MONEY!!
Hodgeson Motorsports
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#4 User is offline   racer65 Icon

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:56 PM

we user 10 inch slicks in canada for years,it doent cost any more then 970 tires...

we buy 6 tires per year..

so why wine about the cost.. your getting more money to win...


400.00 to start the feature 2000,00 to 3,000.00 to win
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#5 User is offline   mod4 Icon

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:43 PM

Where getting $500 to win $100 to start, so if can a traveling series to pay what your saying count me in!! Until then keep your slicks!!!
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#6 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 08:32 AM

If that payout can be funded somehow, it would be a great plan and it would work.

Without the funding for that payout, it would be a fenderless SLM series that only a few racers could afford to run out-of-pocket.

A crate motor would make it better and cheaper, but then it would take longer for people to commit to it and build the cars.

Mike
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#7 Guest_chris_*

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 08:35 AM

It would be a tough go at developing something like this. We have entered an age where promoters are cutting purses, not enhancing them. Nearly every track in Michigan has cut their payouts in one way or another and are also cutting back on traveling series dates.

I hate to be a pessimist and while the idea sounds good the chances of it ever gaining favor with promoters is slim to none.

Chris
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#8 User is offline   OvalRacer Icon

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 11:10 AM

I can remember all the way back in the day when my dad first started racing and building the mods. There were only four of them racing for the first part of the year over at Spartan. People were wanting to see how it was going to take off. To bad the promotors have ruined this class. The mods are great to watch and race. Someday there will be a series with a good purse, tire, schedule, and crate motor. Until then we all have to pick and choose what series to run and have fun there.
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#9 User is offline   racer65 Icon

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 08:50 PM

THE CRATE ENGINE WILL BE THE BEST OPTION, WE HAVE BEEN USING THEM AT DELAWARE SPEEDWAY FOR THE PASS 2 YRS,

08 SEASON YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE AN CRATE ENGINE OR YOU WONT BE ABLE YOU RACE THERE....

AM WILL TO GET AN SERIES STARED UP..AM AN RACER WILLING TO PUT 100 % INTO THIS .

I KNOW THERE WILL BE SOME PROBLEMS THAT WILL NEED TO BE IRON OUT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE 100 LAP FEATURES, PAYING 2,00.00 TO 3,000.00 TO WIN
MUST USED AN CRATE ENGINE, 10 INCH SLICK TIRE...

LIKE TO SEE RACING FROM AN 1/4 MILE TO 5/8 MILE TRACKS BOTH IN THE STATES AND CANADA..

I KNOW I CANT PLEASE ALL YOUR RACERS , BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN PAVEMENT MOD SERIES THAT CARE FOR THR DRIVE..

AFTER READING THE RULES FROM THE USA MODS , NEED TO START UP AN NEW SERIES...

THE ASA SERICES STARTED OUT SLOW , NOW IT HAS 3 DIVISIONS..
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#10 Guest_chris_*

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:10 AM

QUOTE(OvalRacer)
To bad the promotors have ruined this class. The mods are great to watch and race.


I don't think the Promoters had much input into the destruction of this division. Actually, I do not think it is ruined.......Yet.

The drivers are sometimes their own worse enemy and a few drivers pushed rules that benefited them, not the entire division. Of course the biggest factor in the downturn in the Mod's is the association itself. One cannot serve two God's. Having an asphalt and dirt division all wrapped up into one association has not and never will work.

Time for a new Association that can adopt a cost saving rules package while forgetting about the few drivers who like to see rules made according to the equipment in their shops.

Chris
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#11 User is offline   OvalRacer Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:49 AM

Well Chris we will have to agree to disagree. There was a time when one sanctioning body held them both. There was a great car count. But you are somewhat right as today's day and age it will be hard to have one sanctioning body do both. Just look at some of the sprint car governing bodies. USAC is about the only one.

As for the promotors not getting involved in ruining the class (yet) then who is to blame. You and I both know there are race tracks within an hour to an hour and half driving distance that have different rules. The drivers don't enforce them. Anyways we all have been down this road before. My whole point (the word ruined may of been to harsh) is it would be nice to get a uniform set of rules. That is all. Until then let the debate continue.
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#12 Guest_chris_*

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:04 AM

Oval Racer:

I agree 100 %. The Mod division does need a standard set of rules and I wished someone would grab the bull by the horns and start a new Association and " Get Err the Hell Dun ". This talk has been going on for a couple years, drivers have bitched about their Association and ongoing rules problems yet no one has done a damn thing about it yet.

The problem has been a few individuals seem to be the only ones who want to work on these issues and they typically represent only one track. It does no good for one track to adopt new rules while the rest of the State's Mod drivers falter under MMA rules or rules created by a couple promoters.

I have said this before and will say it again. The State's Mod drivers all need to come together, design a new set of rules that can lead them into the future and help build their division. They need to throw ideas on the table that can help bring new teams into the division NOT create rules that serve a chosen few. If this is through a new Association, so be it. But it needs to get done. Soon.

If I sill lived there I would do this myself using the same format that we created USPRO. With all drivers input. But your not going to drag my warm old butt out of Florida and up there into freezing climates. smile.gif

Chris
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#13 User is offline   PFD Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:14 AM

First off I'm curious what rules were created with out the entire division in mind. Anything that has been asked for is for the benefit of the asphalt mods. Second, I personally could give two craps what tire we are on. AS LONG AS IT'S THE SAME AS EVERYWHERE ELSE. I couldn't stand IMCA, but I could run my mod anywhere. I'm tired of people that don't race in the division trying to "make it better". These people aren't there every week spending the money, trying to make a buck. USA is very popular and doesn't normally take any hits on it's program, why not go with it. As far as putting the cars on tour with 10" slicks, and open bodies with crate motors. Great idea, except for the crate motors. Crates hurt anyone without a chevrolet, so wouldn't see me showing up anytime soon. Why in the hell would I show up to an event knowing that half the field has 10-20 hp on me. Makes me work harder just to keep up. Whelen Modifieds are awesome machines, now picture them with a 400hp crate motor, yeah wouldn't that suck. Do any of you have any idea the money that would be spent replacing the seals on crate motors, all you need to do is a little homework and you can find exactly what you need. New seals, and a machine shop willing to do the work. Now all the sudden someone has 500hp and is kicking ass, now everyone has to up the ante (cheat so to speak) so where is the money savings.
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#14 User is offline   KBM17g Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:48 AM

I'd like to give my opinion as a driver and owner (although not a mod) What I keep hearing is 2 different ideas going on here. On 1 side you got the guy who could care less how much money he has to spend to race as long as he can whoop everyones ass! On the other side you have the cost conscious guy that says let's keep a TREADED 970 tire which is good for mods, get rules in line and not kill the division like SLM are doing. This is my point.....I can't run a SUPER anything and don't want to. I want a mod and want to race with guys that maybe have a million in thier wallet but can't spend it on the car...DRIVERS for the most part are the reason rules get outta hand. I've heard it said before in the tech barn at Berlin...I can't help I have more sponsors or my sponsors pay more, MY DAD has more money than your dad...etc etc. Guys that have money always complainin "why punish us guys who can spend spend spend!" This problem is the same at every track in the world, dirt or asphalt, mod or ministock. The solution......get a group of well known modified racers together form the ASSN. I know it's not as easy as that because if it were it'd be done. It's a start Just like I'm sure when Ron and Chris were talkin about startin USPro. Started as an idea and grew from there.

I just want to see the mods around for a long time...and not just for the chosen few!!!!!!
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#15 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:57 AM

I can't say I've ever HAD a motor with more than 400 hp, and I did just fine.

I think Crate motors would be great for the class, it would just be a tough transition due to almost everyone already having motors and parts.

There are ways to equalize the differences in HP, and if someone builds a cheater motor they would get caught.

Racers ARE their own worst enemy...One example would be the mod meeting at Spartan. Guys wanted to switch tires because they "cannot get the car hooked up" on the current tire. A car that is hard to hook up is a car that cannot use a lot of horsepower.

The MMA tire is likely the main reason why I was able to compete against 500+ HP cars.

I say the FIRST solution to rising costs in the mod division is to switch to a 6-inch wide version of the MMA tire. It sure would cut the engines right out of the picture wouldn't it. Anyone could be competitive with 300 HP or even less. But you know what? I bet about anything that not one single person who is complaining about the cost of running a modified would be willing to do that.

Racers (in general) want cars that are hooked up like they are on rails. Racers don't want to have to "drive" the cars anymore like they did in the past. They want all the power they can get and then they want rule changes to make it so they can use it. First they want 800 hp engines. Next they want 10 inch slicks cuz they can't hook up the 800 hp. Then they want $250 apiece shocks because they help it "feel" better, and it never ends.

So, a question to all the Mod Veterans... When the mod class first started...Back when it was cheap... How did the cars drive? Were they "hooked up" like todays modifieds? Or were they a real handful that a driver had to DRIVE???


Mike
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#16 User is offline   mod4 Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:56 AM

Mike, I feel have a tire(970) that all ready does that, and most of race tracks in this area all ready run the 970 tire, AutoCity, Dixe, Whittemore, Kalamazoo, and USA Modified Series!!
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#17 User is offline   circusracer Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 12:10 PM

Mike, I'll take the 6" tire. I think the big deal about the shocks is instead of having 10 or 16 shocks in your trailer, you only have the 4. so the cost balances out better.
Laci Donnert #1 Modified, crew chief #2 Modified.
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#18 User is offline   PFD Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 12:59 PM

Mike I don't know where you get your info sometimes and this is one of them. The problem with MMA tire isn't that "we" can't hook it up. It's a different tire than anywhere else "we" may run. How many guys ran Auto City on the HOOSIER, Who ran Angola on the HOOSIER, should I go on. The MMA tire is just fine with me and others, but we want the same tire. If you want any kind of unity it's going to have to start there. I can't believe how much this common tire deal has turned into such a pain in the ass. You mention IMCA, guess what same tire from Michigan to Florida. Spartan racers want to get their feet wet somewhere else, "well guess I gotta buy 4-6 tires to try Angola". I'm glad 400hp worked for you then, and it would probably work now at certain tracks, but it's racing and that usually leads toward innovation. Innovation leads to faster cars, better engines, better suspension setups. So let's undo the growth of the division and go back to $300 dollar claimer engines that blow up all the time. I remember those days, the track didn't need an intermission because the mods pulled out and everyone went to get a hot dog. We are finally a division worth waiting for. The Spartan meeting is, and was intended to benefit all the mods in Michigan. It's a shame that not all saw it that way.
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#19 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:59 PM

Everything in my post wasn't intended to be 100% realistic, however it isn't far off.

I was not trying to imply that the meeting was not in the interest of the modified racing division as a whole. I was only using one very small part of that meeting as an example to show how some racers unknowingly make changes that have negative effects on other things. I know there was at least one person at that meeting who's reason for wanting to switch to the 970 was that they "can't get hooked up" on the MMA tire. I wasn't necessarily finding fault with the tire switch itself, but rather with the "I can't get hooked up on it" statement which is what I feel has led to the rising costs of mod racing. If everyone wants to switch to the 970 because it's better for traveling, or because it lasts longer, or cycles better, or whatever, then that's fine. But I will never support switching the mods to a different tire for the reason that it "hooks the car up better".

I am also not trying to convince anyone that rising costs are preventable. Evolution is unavoidable, but we still need to try and keep things in check.

As for the shocks. I agree that re-buildable shocks save the racer money. That's why I own Qa1 steel body shocks. They are only like $70 ea and being able to re-build and re-valve them saves a lot of money. But unfortunately some people attempt to outspend everyone else and that's when cars start showing up at tracks with exotic Penske and Ohlin type shocks on their modifieds.

I just try and get people thinking sometimes...And that's all I'm trying to do here as well.

Mike
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#20 User is offline   schinde Icon

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 03:00 PM

Finding a common tire is for us to run on continues to be a pain, no doubt. Last year I pounded a drum and pounded a drum regarding a common tire. To wit: (from a post of sep 29, 05)

I do not think that it would be an anti-revenue move if all or at least the great majority of pavement tracks in the area got together with all drivers of all classes and saw the benefit of a common tire for all. Again, as I pointed out earlier, and as Gavin supported, $600 a pop to visit a new track is a tough pill to swallow, and most of that is tire money if that track doesn't run your current inventory of tires. So, I guess, and I am guessing only, that some of the money lost in a change from say, Hoosier to Am Racers could be made up with new visitor money. And, from a business standpoint, putting myself in a promoter's shoes, I would have some serious talks with Wayne and others in the tire supply business, and see what kind of a margin could be garnered with one or two tracks using the same rubber, and five or six tracks doing the same. And from the tire supplier's point of view, the supply and demand curve changes to their benefit, and we all know what that means. Both parties profit, and profit again, is not evil or bad.


So again, we visit, and have recently visited this tire issue with various people in this business. And again, it is one of the thorniest issues we are facing in this division. Add in the complicator that a number of mod drivers are in favor of a tire rule and even tire impound, and we have an economic impasse, some can and some can't afford additional rims and sets of tires in order to satiate that desire to experieince different tracks when the whimsy occurs.

Agreed, Mike, if you can't hook up with the American Racer, you won't necessarily be any better with the Hoosier, as that tire requires a different set up, and the reason you aren't hooking up in the first place may well be your set up with the Am Racer tire.

There is a lot of commonality between USA and MMA rules, some differences that are not insurmountable or costly to make either car legal in either sanction, so adopting a common set of rules won't be as hard as adopting a common tire.

Finding a tire supplier like Wayne isn't easy either, he provides a lot more than just rubber to us, he provides an invaluable service.

I know for sure that this issue is keeping at least one promoter awake at night thinking about what he is going to do, or be able to do, for us as a mod division.

And, I know I for one am staying awake at night trying to figure out where I am going to come up with enough money to fund my tire habit for this year, no matter which tire we run.

And, in truth, our current asphalt sanction body for many of us has done us no favors in not getting and or trying their dead level best to lock up as many asphalt tracks in this state as they can. Surely, there will be some that won't come on board, but just two years ago, there were at least six asphalt tracks on board, last year just two, this year maybe only one. That in itself says something is terribly wrong, and it isn't the chosen tire.

A champion for the asphalt mods in this state could and would be out working all of the asphalt tracks and trying, through leverage, sponsorship, showing some payback for membership for that track, working to get more and more of them together. Its a damn shame that two tracks within 60 miles of each other don't have the same sanction body for their mods, which would mean the same tire, which would mean opened doors for travel directed teams.

This is a watershed year for some asphalt mods, and in a few weeks a direction will become clearer. Until then, we still need to be thinking of what it is that can keep us whole as a premier division.

I know I will be running one track regularly, and hope to haul to some others just for the experience, but again, I have to consider where I can run dependent upon the tire that the track runs.

That, or I need a sponsor that doesn't mind funding a voracious appetite for rubber.

have a good day,

schinde
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