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Mod drivers, your thoughts please... Rule changes on the East Side

#1 User is offline   TT22KH Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:54 AM

It looks like both Auto City and Dixie are now allowing Howe Centerlinks and ball joints for the 2007 season. The reasoning both tracks have provided is that guys are already using them, so they ought to change the rules to match what the guys already have. These parts have been illegal for many years on modifieds.

So, what are your thoughts on this issue. Should they be made legal just because some guys already have them? Since they were not legal last season, why were these cars allowed to compete?

Just trying to get some good input on the issue, because I find it an interesting one. I am not accusing anyone of cheating. But it is a fact that some cars were using these parts last season, and these parts were not legal last season.

Keep it civil everyone!
Kyle Hayden
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#2 Guest_HRT187_*

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 01:30 PM

I don't ever remember the Howe BJs being illegal. The rules say that the adjustable monoball style ones are illegal, but not the Howe ones. Personally I like the Howe and the monoball type balljoints, because they are easier (and cheaper) to repair and replace.

The centerlinks are another story, only for certain applications where the stock replacement parts are very expensive does it makes sense to use that part. I never needed to use one because I could get near perfect bumpersteer from the stock stuff.

I do agree with the idea that it's wrong to allow rule changes based on what people have "gotten away with" already. If it makes the end cost for the racer go down, I hate to see it neglected in the rule book. Theres a lot of other outdated rules like that too, quick change rear ends were one of them, aluminum rear hubs is one that still exists (aluminum hubs are cheaper than steel).
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#3 User is offline   circusracer Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 01:47 PM

I know the question was for the modifieds but I have seen a few street stocks run these pieces at every track I ran last year.
Laci Donnert #1 Modified, crew chief #2 Modified.
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#4 User is offline   TT22KH Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 01:47 PM

The reason I mentioned Howe balljoints is because Dixie specifically mentioned non-OEM ball joints in their rules update for the mods. Here is the link to the update posted on their website yesterday.....http://dixiemotorspe...ieds_rules.html

We use Howe Centerlinks on our factory stocks.......but these pieces are legal for us. That also does not make a lot of sense to me either, but I just follow 'em I don't write them. The rest of the steering components are supposed to be OEM, but the centerlink can be Howe, for Factory stocks.
Kyle Hayden
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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:04 PM

The rate the modifieds are going they will be super late models in a few years, looking at the Dixe web site we my be allow racks next year. Then Fab front subs and so on..., the super drivers price themsevles out of the market now there going the same in the modified class, its just a snow ball effect. Give a inch and they will take a mile! Everyone thinks its great that Howe and all these big chassis companys are building modifieds, so far all they have done is coasted us more money!!! But from I'am told it is the natrue of the beast, so deal with it!
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#6 User is offline   evans17e Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:22 PM

WELL THE WAY I SEE IT, EVERY OTHER TRACK IN MICHIGAN ALLOWS ALUMINUM HEADS EXCEPT DIXIE WITH A WEIGHT PENALTY,SO THAT FORCES ME TO HAVE 2 DIFFERENT MODIFIEDS SET TO TRAVEL WITH,IF I WANT TO RUN DIXIE ON A WEEKLY BASIS,1 MODIFIED TO TRAVEL THE USA MODIFIED SHOWS WITH AND 1 CAR SET UP TO RUN DIXIE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS WITH,AS FOR STOCK SUSPENSION IF THE RULE BOOK SAYS STOCK THAN IT SHOULD BE INFORCED THAT WAY,BUT YOU WILL NEVER GET MULTIPLE TRACKS TO AGREE ON THE SAME RULES PACKAGE,SO AS JOE SAYS LETS JUST GET OUR CARS READY TO GO RACING.
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#7 Guest_HRT187_*

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE(TT22KH @ Mar 13 2007, 02:47 PM) View Post
The reason I mentioned Howe balljoints is because Dixie specifically mentioned non-OEM ball joints in their rules update for the mods. Here is the link to the update posted on their website yesterday.....http://dixiemotorspe...ieds_rules.html


Good point, that is worded slightly different from the rest of them. I still think the intent is actually "no non-OEM-style" balljoints. The Howe BJ is basically an OEM balljoint with a replaceable $10-$15 spud. They do have less friction than a stock one, but that's not the difference between winning and losing.

Joe has a good point, there is a lot of rule changes that can jack up the price really quick, that dont serve much purpose other than making a mod more like a superlatemodel. The other problem with some of these rule changes is that these parts will change just enough to be used on a modified... then there is no resource for used parts. A while back we talked about racks for mods, turned out that they weren't any cheaper, and they are less durable.

Where's that budget sprint car class of rules that we were kicking around??
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#8 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:16 PM

The ones I don't understand are the ones that have nothing to really do with making a car faster. The Howe nose (yes we beat it to death) Rear bumper covers, plastic rocker panels, 2,4,6 8inch spoilers. I agree with QC rear ends, aluminum heads and hubs to name a few. But dropped spindels or parts that aren't legal, but somebody runs them for a year or so and they are made legal just to make life easier, I don't buy those. That means if I ran a turbo or fuel injector for a year and nobody ever caught it it should be legal??? I know that the USA rules are probably the best out there and that is why they are copied so much. But even those need to be review with a truthful eye. Who knows down the road a few years maybe you will have two classes of mods, those like you have know, and those for the guys with deep pockets that really like to go fast. I can name 5 or 6 rules that could be changed for little or no "REAL" cost that would probably add some new bllod to the fire.
The Wizard
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#9 User is offline   superfast_86 Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:26 PM

Because they weren't caught in 2006 is the lamest excuse to make something legal. Talk with "ALL" the drivers and make an informed decision based on their opinions.

Anyways, Auto City and Dixie's decision has forced us at the Whittemore Speedway to discuss this issue at our meeting Friday night.

Andy
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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:09 PM

Andy,The only reason the Howe centerlink was made OK at AutoCity was because two guys has been running them for the last two years. So guys that can't race with in the rules get a pat on the back! Does anyone know if Howe is using the refab front sub (the sub you put togther out of a kit)???
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#11 User is offline   superfast_86 Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:31 PM

Joe,
I agree with you. Where is the line drawn, before the low budget racer is priced out of the MODS. If anybody would like their opinion voiced at the meeting and would like to stay nameless, feel free to call me at 989-310-0822.

Andy
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#12 User is offline   superfast_86 Icon

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:36 PM

Laci,
I agree with you, that's why I moved to a Mod, because I couldn't afford a street stock anymore! blink.gif

Andy
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Posted 14 March 2007 - 06:50 AM

Boy asphalt racers wory about silly things! Dirt racers are concerned about is if the track will stay tacky or go dry slick. Than most just change their driving, maybe a shock or spring. This worrying about center link stuff is crazy and stressfull for ya all. Go to dirt where the only advantage you have in a mod is the driver. Or IMCA sanction the mods on asphalt. I might even get an asphalt car if that happend.
Conrad
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#14 User is offline   TT22KH Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 07:27 AM

I don't understand how they allow factory stocks to use the Howe centerlink and not the Mods either. The only reason I have one is because it came with the car when I bought it!!
Kyle Hayden
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#15 User is offline   circusracer Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 08:11 AM

I have a howe centerlink, I ran with it for only the first few races of the year. I got into a wreck at Dixie and bent the howe piece, I couldnt afford another one so I got a stock one. With no heating and bending I got my Bump better with the stock one then I did with the howe. I straightened the howe piece back very easily, and never put it bck on. So I guess the point Im making is, does it really offer a performance adantage? no. does it cost more? Heck yes it does. If it is made legal will there be guys who think they have to have it? definitley (I sure did). If anything I would think that for the extra $$, some guys will save a lot of time and elbow grease buy buying the howe centerlink and doing there bump steer instead of spending a whole day or a whole weekend removing front steering components to heat them up and bend them. Make it legal or make it Illegal.................could this be one of the area's that we just make gray to save some arguements? If you want one fine buy it, you dont need it (I didnt) dont buy it.
Laci Donnert #1 Modified, crew chief #2 Modified.
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Posted 14 March 2007 - 08:51 AM

I agree Laci, the Howe centerlink is not a big deal! If you want one great if you don't great, but the talk of racks and fab front subs and so on is going coast everyone more money. If it stop with the Howe centerlink that would be fine, but its opening the door for more!
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#17 User is offline   circusracer Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 09:02 AM

Your right Joe! Why do we need racks and Fabbed subs when they still make all the components for our chassis, and you can still get it right from carquest or autozone or even the junk yard if your lucky and resourceful enough.
Laci Donnert #1 Modified, crew chief #2 Modified.
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Posted 14 March 2007 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE(circusracer @ Mar 15 2007, 12:02 AM) View Post
Your right Joe! Why do we need racks and Fabbed subs when they still make all the components for our chassis, and you can still get it right from carquest or autozone or even the junk yard if your lucky and resourceful enough.


heres the way i see it......the how center link costs say 60 dollars more than a stock one. But you spend 5 hours less time setting bump steer with it. I have always been taught time is money and this should be no exception. There is no racing advantage to it, it is purely convenience. So if you want one buy one, if not dont worry about it. I personally have a stock one and have never had a problem with setting my bump, but i am always open to making my job easier when setting these things up.

There is no way any set of rules is going to make every racer happen so might as well get over that. And as far as the class headed towards supers, you missed that boat long ago. This class has been headed that way since i have been in it. No one uses the claim rule anymore, and there arent any other rules enforced to help keep cost down. So unless you plan on getting every other rule changed that has added cost to the racer, then what is the point in arguing over a centerlink that doesnt give an advantage? No one seemed to complain much about racing with aluminum heads or coil overs, even though there are advantages of those.
You can pay for school, but you can't buy class!
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#19 User is offline   TT22KH Icon

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 04:17 PM

Interesting thoughts everyone.
Kyle Hayden
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Posted 14 March 2007 - 05:38 PM

Nick, I said the howe centerlink wasn't a big deal, if you want to buy one great if not don't! My question is what's next??? And YES, I did complain about running coil overs and aluminum heads, because its more MONEY!! And putting more parts on the self! One more step closer to a super.
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