Michigan Short Track Racing Club: Aluminum Heads and Shock Claims - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

Jump to content

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Aluminum Heads and Shock Claims

#1 User is offline   mod911 Icon

  • mod911
  • Icon
  • Group: Sponsor Member
  • Posts: 1,403
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:owosso mi
  • Interests:racing, skiing,

Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:40 AM

Same stupid rules I suppose. Add 200 pounds, no coilovers but thousand dollar shocks and such are ok. May as well put up a fence to keep outsiders out as run antique rules. I do not have al heads on now and have raced against them most of the summer and see no difference. Wives tales rule over there. Do away with reverse starters and penske shocks. Crazy rule makers over there.
An invite for regulars ? Most cars I race with have al heads so they can not come but kill that coil over rule and I will come.
Lead, follow or get out of the way.
0

#2 User is offline   cpracer Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,035
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Clair Shores, Mi

Posted 06 September 2007 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE(mod911 @ Sep 6 2007, 11:40 PM) View Post
Same stupid rules I suppose. Add 200 pounds, no coilovers but thousand dollar shocks and such are ok. May as well put up a fence to keep outsiders out as run antique rules. I do not have al heads on now and have raced against them most of the summer and see no difference. Wives tales rule over there. Do away with reverse starters and penske shocks. Crazy rule makers over there.
An invite for regulars ? Most cars I race with have al heads so they can not come but kill that coil over rule and I will come.




Well Dick next year you wont have to worry about it anymore. MCAR will not allow Al heads at all. So that means, Owosso, Dixie, Auto City and Whittemore.

What is a Wives tale?
0

#3 User is offline   racinray75 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,355
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bay city MI
  • Interests:ummm racing

Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:40 AM

I personnaly agree with no Aluminum heads. I know alot of people disagree with me, but I also know that alot of the Super Drivers turned mod drivers do agree with the no aluminum head deal because of where that class went. I know alum. heads can be cheaper in some cases and are for sure cheaper to fix, but I think keeping them out of the mods is a great idea. We are getting these Mods hooked up better and better every year and competition is getting tighter and tighter. I think with the 970 being a decent tire and some of our "engineer" settup guys, we are able to use more and more motor. Lets limit it now. I to have seen alot of Penske shocks. Reading the rules, dixie has a 200.00 rule but I don't see that anywhere else, I also don't see it being enforced. I was thinking about getting some penskes if alot of people comtinue to run them, but as soon as I do... you know what will happen. So I agree with you there Dick, either enforce the rule or get rid of it.
I say lets have a "crate" shock rule icon_smile.gif Either pro or carrera steel body shock period. That would be cool.

Ray
0

#4 User is offline   mod4 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,380
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Davison
  • Interests:Racing and Hockey

Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:38 PM

Sorry if thats the case, I thought I read all invites. Having a reg fee is BS!! Just sucking more money out of the drivers!!

They could have a $50.00 claimer on each shock.
Hodgeson Motorsports
#84
0

#5 User is offline   mod911 Icon

  • mod911
  • Icon
  • Group: Sponsor Member
  • Posts: 1,403
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:owosso mi
  • Interests:racing, skiing,

Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:42 PM

What about us mod drivers who are only mod drivers? Don't we get some say. I would like to make late model rules. Iron head crate motors for u. 2bbls also so poor peopole can race supers.
This horsepower crap and al heads is pure bull. Think cnc iron whatever degree heads are not available? At great expense. Like I said I have been racing against them most of the year with iron and do you hear me crying about them. Makes no difference but I am sure those who have not competed without them against them have the final say. Iron heads make more power cause they are stiffer and do not lose as much compression flexing as iron heads. Basic facts. The material itself does not make power. Besides almost every car in the lot has al heads.....
A wives tale is things most women believe in against all intelligence. Do you believe cats suck the air out of babies? Do you believe the cow jumped over the moon? Some have difficulty seperating useful accurate facts from stories passed around for a long time. Maybe throwing salt over your shoulder will cure something or keep something away? Wives tales mistaken for fact.
Owosso has no rules so do you think they will send their al head cars home. No one left to race if they do except Larry Wallace and myself.
All that rule is for is to keep car counts down and visitors away so regulars have it all. What few there are anyway. Not many of them travel anyway.
I did great with iron heads at Angola this year and was about the only one with them. Made no difference at all and I would not bother to buy them if I didn't have some.
Why all the tears about rear 5 inch coil overs? More non winning super drivers crying and thinking they will win if they hold down the rest. Common sense is dead in Flint.
Us real mod only racers do not care about what super drivers think of our class. Stay there and mind your own business instead of isolating the east side from the world. Racing in michigan is in the crapper and going down.
I hear no crying about al heads on PURE STOCKS. I bet most have them.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.
0

#6 User is offline   racinray75 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,355
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bay city MI
  • Interests:ummm racing

Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:52 PM

What about us mod drivers who are only mod drivers? Don't we get some say. I would like to make late model rules. Iron head crate motors for u. 2bbls also so poor peopole can race supers.

Yeah dick that is what I said, mod drivers don't have any say. You read what you want and like to argue, I know.


As far as registration, Yeah that sucks. Start money went up to 140 for this event, But we are paying for it lol. It was 120 now its 140 but we have to pay 20. Now thats funny right there.

Joe, I think the 50.00 claim rule is cool, but I myself would never feel right about taking a penske from someone for 50.00 cause that would only start bullshit, I don't like having to be the bullshit starter and that is what would happen. It would be up to me to be the asshole and start crap by claiming. Don't have the answer I guess other than tech them better.

Ray
0

#7 User is offline   mod4 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,380
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Davison
  • Interests:Racing and Hockey

Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:45 PM

Ray, Thats the point of the rule, keep coast down. If some one is bright enough to bring penske shocks to a track with a $50 claim rule on shocks, thats there problem.

As far as the pay out at dixe, I think I'II be going to A/C. It will be cheaper!!
Hodgeson Motorsports
#84
0

#8 User is offline   Oz Icon

  • Track champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 345
  • Joined: --
  • Location:Lansing

Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:26 AM

QUOTE(racer98 @ Sep 6 2007, 11:34 PM) View Post
You are invited to come and run by their rules biggrin.gif

About 3 or so years ago I was able to race at Dixie Speedway and loved the track.MMA cars were legal and fit into there rules.The MCAR decided to go in a different direction and instead of just adopting the USA mod rules which would make about every car in the state legal at any track in the state.They decided to make a couple key changes to isolate any mods that don't run at MCAR tracks from ever racing at a MCAR track.I would have gone to this invite if my car were legal there like it was 3 years ago.I have an aluminum head motor in so that closes the gate on me from ever visiting an east side track.To many changes to have to make to the car for 1 race.I know the MCAR had good intensions but I just don't get why they had to get so radically different from the previous mod rules.Every year it seems the rules at each track go further and further in opposite directions,I don't get it.A mod should be a mod no matter were you want to race it.Seems simple to me,but what do I know?
0

#9 User is offline   cpracer Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,035
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Clair Shores, Mi

Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:42 AM

you guys screwed yourselves. 3 years ago when all this Al head crap came up I said dont allow them.


USA mods were the only ones allowing them and very few of you guys have raced with them.

So Spartan JUMPED all over the AL head thing thinking that they would some how get more cars, guess they were wrong. So then MMA took the same rules, oh yeah, where is MMA today?

So dont blame MCAR for screwing you guys, blame MMA and the people who just HAD to have AL heads. It wasnt broke, it didnt need to be fixed.



0

#10 Guest_HRT187_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:59 AM

This is so old. I have a feeling that this whole iron head thing has legs because a handful of racers that have the ears of many other racers have spent a lot of money on tricked out iron heads... now they are threatened to lose that advantage.

Here's my challenge:
If anyone wants to pay to put motors on a dyno I'll put my iron head 377 against any aluminum head mod motor. Then we'll see where all the aluminum head rumors are going to go. I promise that my iron headed mod motor will put down some serious power. I'm positive that it makes more power than my aluminum head sprint car engine does. I'll take on any engine up to 408cid, and I get 3 pulls to dial in the carb and timing, you can have as many as you want. We aren't gonna look at peaks either, it'll be area UNDER the curve (usable power). Any takers?


If you are afraid of keeping costs down I don't see why you would stick with iron heads. They are more expensive, been there and done that. You can buy aluminum heads used from the drag racers all day long. Just look on racing junk.com, I just don't see why MCAR wants to penalize the smart racer, instead they allow the rest of the racers to spend more money. You can build a very simple 357 with 11x heads that will run just fine without a ton of work, and it will be cheap. I sold a set of them this year for $1300 with rockers and girdles, I've got over $2200 in my good irons, not including the rockers.

The motor that was in my car last season had a box stock set of sportsmans on it, and it couldnt get out of it's own way, low compression motor with a flat tappet cam and a cheap set of irons... didnt work, I had to take the STOCK aluminum heads off that motor beacuse of dumb rules like this. (BTW does anyone want to buy a set of L98 vette heads?) I didn't want to sink a ton of money into a set of iron heads to get back what I lost in compression.

If you are so afraid of aluminum heads put in an ASCS head rule, with no allowed porting... then actually tech it. At least then there is an outlet to get rid of the heads when the next dumb rule change comes along.

Fast cars aren't fast because of power, they are fast because they are fast.
0

#11 User is offline   cpracer Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,035
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Clair Shores, Mi

Posted 07 September 2007 - 06:07 AM

Well Gav you spent way too much money then.

I bought RHS heads stock, had a valve job done and bolted them on my 355 compression motor and I didnt even have a total of $1000 in those heads and that motor makes great power.
0

#12 Guest_HRT187_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 07 September 2007 - 06:13 AM

QUOTE(cpracer @ Sep 7 2007, 07:07 AM) View Post
Well Gav you spent way too much money then.

I bought RHS heads stock, had a valve job done and bloted them on my 355 compression motor and I didnt even have a total of $1000 in those heads and that motor makes great power.


That's exactly my point. You don't need to spend a bunch of money on this stuff, you need to buy smart. What the heads are made out of doesnt matter at all. Aluminum heads just allows for more options to get good stuff cheap, and they can be worked on and repaired cheaper too. That 377 of mine is ridiculous, you have to pedal it all the way around.

You know as well as I do that "great power" is perception of the car driver and setup moreso than actual power. Your car will probably get accused of making more power than mine will because it's faster... but in actuality it may not make more power at all.
0

#13 User is offline   PFD Icon

  • Touring series rookie
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 575
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, Michigan
  • Interests:Racing, Family, and a little College Hockey. I love to hang out with friends and bench race so to speak. But probably my favorite thing is just playing and chatting with my little girl, hopefully one day she'll be out there tearing up the asphalt. But maybe she'll be a ballarina, either way I win.

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:17 AM

I'm going to say this right out.

"US" Spartan guys that wanted the GD aluminum heads wanted them because it's what USA had. Where is USA now, oh it's probably one of the best shows in town wherever you go. Aluminum heads don't cost money. They give the sense of more power and people then turn around and get better suspension parts, spend more time hooking it up. This is all I'm going to say on the head issue because we've been there done that. If all the mods drop the rule of allowing them I'm not sure I'll stay in the mods. In my opinion taking away the heads is like sticking your head up your ass. I've seen High dollar cars run just as fast as low dollar cars.


You know what screw it, let's just run what ya brung then there is no bitching. If you didn't bring enough and can't afford to bring more then find another division. I'm going to Lobby NASCAR to drop the cost so my race team can compete, what a load of crap.

Perry
Go Big Or Go Home!
www.myspace.com/prd6mod
0

#14 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 4,153
  • Joined: --
  • Interests:adrenaline

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE(cpracer @ Sep 7 2007, 06:42 AM) View Post
you guys screwed yourselves. 3 years ago when all this Al head crap came up I said dont allow them.
USA mods were the only ones allowing them and very few of you guys have raced with them.

So Spartan JUMPED all over the AL head thing thinking that they would some how get more cars, guess they were wrong. So then MMA took the same rules, oh yeah, where is MMA today?

So dont blame MCAR for screwing you guys, blame MMA and the people who just HAD to have AL heads. It wasnt broke, it didnt need to be fixed.


Your OPINION was that they shouldn't be allowed. Then you cornered Mike Kern and who knows who else and gave them an endless earfull of your Super Late Model Driver Guy experience and ended it right there without any further discussion with people who are MOD DRIVERS... Now where is YOUR mod????

Oh OK... You got the rules all fixed up for the east side and then ditched the class. That there is funny (NOT).

So now any of the mod drivers who voted for reasonable and sensible rules are not allowed at the 3 MCAR tracks.

So I hope the 6-8 cars over there have a lot of fun racing each other because the rest of the mods in this state are legal at ALL the other tracks USA mod series included.

I can't wait till somebody buys a $5000+ set of 14 degree cast Iron Heads and shows up over there with them. That no aluminum head rule will make a lot of sense keeping cost down then, won't it?

Those guys over there did nothing more than ruin what could have been a wonderful state to race mods in. Now everybody can just pick a "region" and build a car to fit a few tracks inIstead of every one in the state.

I agree with Dick...Mod drivers should be allowed to make SLM rules. We'll get you guys fixed right up!

Mike
I do it because I can. I can because I want to. I want to because you said I couldn't.

Todays Listening experience-

Dope- I Don't give a ****

Give it a whirl.
0

#15 User is offline   racinray75 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,355
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bay city MI
  • Interests:ummm racing

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE(MaddMike @ Sep 7 2007, 02:38 PM) View Post
Your OPINION was that they shouldn't be allowed. Then you cornered Mike Kern and who knows who else and gave them an endless earfull of your Super Late Model Driver Guy experience and ended it right there without any further discussion with people who are MOD DRIVERS... Now where is YOUR mod????

Oh OK... You got the rules all fixed up for the east side and then ditched the class. That there is funny (NOT).

So now any of the mod drivers who voted for reasonable and sensible rules are not allowed at the 3 MCAR tracks.

So I hope the 6-8 cars over there have a lot of fun racing each other because the rest of the mods in this state are legal at ALL the other tracks USA mod series included.

I can't wait till somebody buys a $5000+ set of 14 degree cast Iron Heads and shows up over there with them. That no aluminum head rule will make a lot of sense keeping cost down then, won't it?

Those guys over there did nothing more than ruin what could have been a wonderful state to race mods in. Now everybody can just pick a "region" and build a car to fit a few tracks inIstead of every one in the state.

I agree with Dick...Mod drivers should be allowed to make SLM rules. We'll get you guys fixed right up!

Mike



That post was asinine.

Ray

0

#16 User is offline   racinray75 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,355
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bay city MI
  • Interests:ummm racing

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:56 AM

So lets let street stocks run sb2 nascar motors. Fixing all those "stock" motor parts are expensive, lets have them in a fab chassis to, stock subs are not cheap. I just think the Mods had a fine set of rules before the alum. heads, coil overs,... came into play. Remember guys this is just opinions and a debate. Debates are giving your point of view and trying to persuade someone about why you think that way. You guys can not have an intelligent debate because you are so quick to bash someone for there opinion and stomp on them. Quit getting frusterated and debate and persuade. Christ you just told a guy he single handedly ruined mod racing on the east side. Just tell me why you think Al heads shoud be allowed and end it lol. Hell I think I am right to but I am willing to hear your side and try to learn something. Seems all I learn is who much of an ass you guys can be. You sure make it hard to have an opinion.
Ray
0

#17 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 4,153
  • Joined: --
  • Interests:adrenaline

Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE(racinray75 @ Sep 7 2007, 10:56 AM) View Post
So lets let street stocks run sb2 nascar motors. Fixing all those "stock" motor parts are expensive, lets have them in a fab chassis to, stock subs are not cheap. I just think the Mods had a fine set of rules before the alum. heads, coil overs,... came into play. Remember guys this is just opinions and a debate. Debates are giving your point of view and trying to persuade someone about why you think that way. You guys can not have an intelligent debate because you are so quick to bash someone for there opinion and stomp on them. Quit getting frusterated and debate and persuade. Christ you just told a guy he single handedly ruined mod racing on the east side. Just tell me why you think Al heads shoud be allowed and end it lol. Hell I think I am right to but I am willing to hear your side and try to learn something. Seems all I learn is who much of an ass you guys can be. You sure make it hard to have an opinion.
Ray


Ray, What I posted is exactly what happened. If you think it's "assinine" then you don't know what's really going on here.

Where did the big fuss from coilovers come from??? I'll tell you.... A MOD driver wanted to put his 5" coil springs that he already had on the outside of the shocks he was already using by installing a $20.00 kit. That way he could avoidpaying $150 each for coilover eliminators which his car was equipped with... BUT a SLM driver saw the word "coilover" and got all freaked out and raised a ruckus over it.

Mike
I do it because I can. I can because I want to. I want to because you said I couldn't.

Todays Listening experience-

Dope- I Don't give a ****

Give it a whirl.
0

#18 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 4,153
  • Joined: --
  • Interests:adrenaline

Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:18 AM

This topic always gets my blood boiling because to me it's so simple to understand.

So I'll try real quick one more time.

Whatever you want to spend on the most radical aluminum SB2 or whatever you want to build, I GAURANTEE I can OUTspend you building an IRON head motor that produces just as much power.

Don't anyone argue with this anymore until someone proves otherwise.

Mike
I do it because I can. I can because I want to. I want to because you said I couldn't.

Todays Listening experience-

Dope- I Don't give a ****

Give it a whirl.
0

#19 User is offline   racinray75 Icon

  • Touring series champion
  • Icon
  • Group: Senior Members
  • Posts: 1,355
  • Joined: --
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bay city MI
  • Interests:ummm racing

Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE(MaddMike @ Sep 7 2007, 03:09 PM) View Post
Ray, What I posted is exactly what happened. If you think it's "assinine" then you don't know what's really going on here.

Where did the big fuss from coilovers come from??? I'll tell you.... A MOD driver wanted to put his 5" coil springs that he already had on the outside of the shocks he was already using by installing a $20.00 kit. That way he could avoidpaying $150 each for coilover eliminators which his car was equipped with... BUT a SLM driver saw the word "coilover" and got all freaked out and raised a ruckus over it.

Mike


I think I have a good idea of whats going on, but I am sure you know alot more than me about how we got to this point. i wont argue that. But I think you are not giving the rule makers/track owners much credit if you think that a super late model driver can walk up to him and get the rules changed single handedly. Did mike Kern tell you that happened? Did you see the driver complain and he crossed out the rule and made a new one? I just don't believe the man changed the rule because a Super driver raised a stink. I am sure he thought it out and weighed some more options lol. Also, I have no problems with the 5" spring and legal shock being ran like that. I also am not dead set against alum. heads, I could be conviced with the right set of rules like no porting... It would be hard to tech though. I guess my point is I would like to be able to state my opinion and maybe learn somehing about how someone else thinks rather than hear all the bullshit bashinh.

Ray
0

#20 Guest_HRT187_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE(racinray75 @ Sep 7 2007, 10:56 AM) View Post
I just think the Mods had a fine set of rules before the alum. heads, coil overs,... came into play. Ray



Aluminum heads have been allowed longer than they have been banned. IMCA allowed them, MMA used to allow them until about 98-99. USA mods (E-MOD, I-CAR, INCAR) have always allowed them. I remember having to take off a set of STOCK (GM, production) aluminum heads on more than 1 occassion.

I shouldnt even bother with this, since I don't really have a dog in this race anymore.

BTW There is already at least one car on the east side that has the 14degree irons. I bet it makes more power than the big track tour engines do, but doesn't win that many races (so obviously this is a power game). rolleyes.gif


0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users