Michigan Short Track Racing Club: Opinions: combining V8 purew with FWD 4 cyinders - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

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Opinions: combining V8 purew with FWD 4 cyinders

#1 User is offline   tricknology Icon

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:55 PM

Your opinions on

combining at Some tracks or some events of the rwd V8 pure stocks and the FWD 4 cylinder class.

many timnes,,,The fwd 4 cyinder cars are as fast as a slower V8 Pure stock,a nd are alot cheaper to build and race.

IMHO, Flat rock sould allow the Spartan/FLat Rock 4 cylinder FWD cars to race in Flat rocks 250 lap pure stock enduros.

Tracks that have only a dozen pure stocks and a dozen fwd 4 cyinder cars sould combine the class into a ABC feature type of class the allows V8 pure stocks and FWD 4 cylindre cars to race together.

The sports car types do this all the time slower cars race in the same race as the fast v8s.
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

Arnold,

Would the weight difference be a concern in an Enduro? Not sure I would want to be sitting in a 4 cylinder car in the middle of the track while all the heavier cars were out there racing.

They do race different classes of cars together in sports car tracks, but car to car contact is pretty infrequent.
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

several tracks have been running big cars with little cars together in enduros and destruction shows.
the small cars tend to deflect better in a crash and take less damage. we have ran both. a 97 grand
am. and a 80 delta 88. the grand am took just as good of a hit as the fullframe car. if built correctly
they can all be safe and run together. currently running a pickup and a 89 town car. next year were
hoping to come out with either corsicas or grand ams.

the only issue ive seen would have been an issue no matter the size of the car. rick miracles wreck
at dixie when he pulled across oncoming traffic down the track and was broadsided by a dakota at speed.
the car he was in had no cage and no spreader bar. i dont think vehicle size had anything to do
with the damage his car took. it was the quality of the build. EDIT: also rust issues that couldnt
be seen added to the amount of damage that car took
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:26 AM

Go check out a demo derby to answer this question, I did over the weekend.
Needless to say, I'd rather be in a full-size car.
The 2 classes were separated.
Half of the full size cars made it to the next round.
There was only one runner left in the compacts, and that car was half the size it started out as.
Those compacts fold the back half in like you wouldn't believe.
All the cars had some sort of roll cage in them.
The back ends in the compacts pushed in till they hit the roll cage.
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:36 AM

View Post360mad, on 06 September 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Go check out a demo derby to answer this question, I did over the weekend.
Needless to say, I'd rather be in a full-size car.
The 2 classes were separated.
Half of the full size cars made it to the next round.
There was only one runner left in the compacts, and that car was half the size it started out as.
Those compacts fold the back half in like you wouldn't believe.
All the cars had some sort of roll cage in them.
The back ends in the compacts pushed in till they hit the roll cage.


ive derbied both. raced both. and wrecked both. most of the time by the time a fwd gets to the point
its cheap enough to derby the backends and undercariage are rusted out. usuaaly why they wind up off
the road. i run whatever i can find. wouldnt hesitate to run either. as long as both do not
have front or rear hoops and FACTORY crumple zones are unaltered front and rear its a non issue.
cars are built from the factory to take a hit. reinforce the drivers cabin and leave a foot at each
end of the car unaltered.
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

360mad,

but the driver was safe right?

Is that not the biggest concern is driver safty?

so the demo derby proved that a FWD compact car was just as safe for the driver as the big rwd V8 car.

this is what almost every 4 cyl FWD car has for a cage,,no body uses junk cages any more,,they all use a HOWE or a Lane/ Allstar cage.

Safety for mini Enduro and 4-cylinder classes begins with Allstar Performance roll cage kits. These kits contain tubing formed from 1 3/4 in., .095 in. wall mild steel. They include a main hoop, halo, windshield posts, font and rear dash bars, three door bars for the driver side door, and a Z-bar for the right side door. Allstar mini Enduro kits also include two lengths of 1 3/4 in. tubing to weld to the factory pinch welds and two lengths of 1 1/2 in. tubing to connect the two sides, creating a solid foundation for the cage and seat mount. You wear a helmet and fire suit to race--suit up your car for the track with Allstar mini Enduro roll cage kits.



http://allstarperfor...ct.htm?prod=785

http://www.summitrac...s/AAF-ALL22104/

http://howeracing.co...t-cage-kit.aspx
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:50 AM

this saturdays flat rock 300 lap V8 RWD pure stock enduro pays $1,000 to win. and is a great RACE not a demo derby,,,it is throw back rracing like LEE PETTY and Joy Fair did in the 1950's at flat rock in STock 1955 Dodges and Plymoths.

they race 3 wide for 300 LAPS!! with NO yellows,, they have a push truck that pushes the stalled / disabled cars back to the pits while the race is going on!! they fix em up and get back into the race!!

=======================

Saturday night, September 8 is a first at Flat Rock Speedway as the stock-bodied Late Models of the ARCA/CRA Super Series pay a visit for the running of the 7-Up 125. A strong field of drivers are already entered, including Kenzie Ruston, one of the top female Stock Car drivers in America. The 300 lap Enduro championship is also on tap, giving race fans 425 laps of racing! Big Wheel races for kids 10 and under will take place prior to the start of the show!

The pit area will open at 1 p.m. for the ARCA/CRA teams and 4:30 for the Enduro teams. ARCA/CRA practice runs from 3:30 to 4:30, with time trials at 5:30 and the Big Wheel races at 6 p.m.

An on-track autograph session with the ARCA/CRA drivers is set for 6:30 and racing begins at 7 p.m. Tickets will go on sale at 4:30 p.m. race day at the track. Fans may purchase their tickets online at www.flatrockspeedway.com. Like us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/toledoflatrock or follow us on Twitter @flatrockspeed.

======================

the 300 lap V8 RWD pure stock enduro pays $1,000 to win. and is a great RACE not a demo derby,,,it is throw back rracing like LEE PETTY and Joy Fair did in the 1950's at flat rock in STock 1955 Dodges and Plymoths.
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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:32 AM

here is a video of V8 rwd Pure stock racing at falt rock,,,

Fast forward to about 4 min into the video,,this is NOT the enduro race but the same kind of cars that race in the V8 250 and 300 lap enduro

3 wide and tight clean racing

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=h1sTcZ-NS5k

also a FWD 4 cyl heat race



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dmI4O3G4CeI
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:41 AM

3 wide racing for 300 laps with NO stopping in the racing action,,,No yellows ( they are not allowed) and they caused no reds,,by far the best bang for your race dollar is to race your pure stock in the Flat Rock enduros,,,Clean Hard racing,,,not a demo derby

http://www.arcaracin...contentid=14051

Strategy played a part in the 300 lap Enduro Championship race Saturday night. With the additional 50 laps tacked onto the event, several drivers decided to pit for fuel. Bobby Hugo ran a steady pace, conserved just a bit and held back a great run by Danny Bennett to score his first victory in the event. Jeff Maran led the early stages until his car went up in a puff of smoke. Bennett took control and led for a better part of the race, but Danny pitted, giving the lead to Hugo. The race ran 300 laps straight with no stoppage in an astounding 1 hour and 18 minutes. At the half-way mark, 21 of the 27 cars were still on the track. With 20 to go, Bennett made up almost a ½ lap as Hugo was being conservative with fuel. He chose not to pit, and with 5 to go, Bennett was within striking distance. Hugo held on to take his big victory over Bennett,
Rayce Metdepenningen, Derrick Sheppard (who also did not pit) and Rick Bennett. The top 5 all finished on the lead lap in the very competitive event. New champ Ringger took sixth to secure the crown, with Rick McColl, Dave Bennett, Kyle Metdepenningen and Troy Brehmer rounding out the top ten.
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:47 AM

View Posttricknology, on 06 September 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

also a FWD 4 cyl heat race http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dmI4O3G4CeI



I found the guy who stole your GOPRO.

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

Now I don't have a comment about the actual title of this thread, but what I do want to comment about is the enduro itself.

First off, "I WAS WRONG!!!". In the past, I have said that I felt that enduro's had past their time. They were once plentifully, but now-a-days, people just aren't into racing them, or watching them.

Not the case at all, at least at Flat Rock!!!

The last enduro I have seen was the one I was in at Dixie in the early 90's. My only actual race. Had seen numerous ones before that, never really did anything for me. They were boring. Flat Rock does it right, as they do most everything. They have a "jam" truck to push debris or stalled vehicles off the racing surface during the race, with no red flags or cautions. The cars just keep going. The action never stops. The last thing it is, is boring. These guys run for points and this was their championship. I had a blast watching it, and calling it. With transponders, you know where everyone is running and can keep the crowd informed as you go. I hardly seen anyone leave after the 7 UP 125 ARCA/CRA Super Series race. They stayed and watched and didn't leave until it was over. It was that entertaining.

As I learned, don't knock it until you tried it. Tried it again anyways, it is much different than your Father's enduros!!!
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:28 AM

The rules for the Flat rock Enduos already allow V6 FWD Compact cars,Only fwd 4 cylinder compact cars are not currently allowed. Many of the compact cars came in both 4 cyl and v6 versions. So currently a Compact V6 Pontiac Grand Am/Chevy Beretta or the compact V6 Ford Contoure can race, but not the 4 cylinder version of these same cars can not,,WHY???.

IMHO, If flat rock allowed FWD 4 cylinder cars to run in the 250 lap enduros,,,you would get a lot of FWD 4 cylinder cars to race this race. I would run our dodge Neon in this race, which holds the flat rock FWD track record of 14.51, which is as fast as a C-main street stock and as fast as most enduro cars.

Kalamazoo is gettting 70 to 100 fwd 4 cyl cars for their enduros,,,,, A flat rock enduro would be great with a mix of V8 rwd cars and FWD 4 cylinder car,,it would be the clash of the OLD school v8 guys against the NEW school young tunner 4 cylinder guys,,,,

They also need to lower the MINIMUM age for this event to 13 years OLD.
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:23 PM

View Post360mad, on 06 September 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Go check out a demo derby to answer this question, I did over the weekend.
Needless to say, I'd rather be in a full-size car.
The 2 classes were separated.
Half of the full size cars made it to the next round.
There was only one runner left in the compacts, and that car was half the size it started out as.
Those compacts fold the back half in like you wouldn't believe.
All the cars had some sort of roll cage in them.
The back ends in the compacts pushed in till they hit the roll cage.

ive run both in a derby and have had much better luck in a compact then a fullsized car. we run full size and compacts together. most of the time a compact will make it to the feature heat before a full sized car.
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostBigEd, on 10 September 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Now I don't have a comment about the actual title of this thread, but what I do want to comment about is the enduro itself.

First off, "I WAS WRONG!!!". In the past, I have said that I felt that enduro's had past their time. They were once plentifully, but now-a-days, people just aren't into racing them, or watching them.

Not the case at all, at least at Flat Rock!!!

The last enduro I have seen was the one I was in at Dixie in the early 90's. My only actual race. Had seen numerous ones before that, never really did anything for me. They were boring. Flat Rock does it right, as they do most everything. They have a "jam" truck to push debris or stalled vehicles off the racing surface during the race, with no red flags or cautions. The cars just keep going. The action never stops. The last thing it is, is boring. These guys run for points and this was their championship. I had a blast watching it, and calling it. With transponders, you know where everyone is running and can keep the crowd informed as you go. I hardly seen anyone leave after the 7 UP 125 ARCA/CRA Super Series race. They stayed and watched and didn't leave until it was over. It was that entertaining.

As I learned, don't knock it until you tried it. Tried it again anyways, it is much different than your Father's enduros!!!

$20 for this show was ridiculous! Most didn't leave after the CRA race because they wanted to get their $20 worth...plus it was only approx 8:15pm at the completion of the CRA race. I didn't mind the enduro race but that just isn't my thing, I left after 50 laps. I believe a better show would have been the CRA 125 lap race, plus Flat Rock's weekly street stocks with their heat races and feature... Just a better value in my opinion.

The management does the same thing at Toledo when they run the outlaw super lates! They have the outlaw SLM's, plus two divisions on the small track with barely any cars... Again NOT a good value for the hefty front gate fee.

It's no wonder the "fans" aren't returning for these shows...
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:10 AM

View Postfastforward, on 11 September 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

$20 for this show was ridiculous! Most didn't leave after the CRA race because they wanted to get their $20 worth...plus it was only approx 8:15pm at the completion of the CRA race. I didn't mind the enduro race but that just isn't my thing, I left after 50 laps. I believe a better show would have been the CRA 125 lap race, plus Flat Rock's weekly street stocks with their heat races and feature... Just a better value in my opinion.

The management does the same thing at Toledo when they run the outlaw super lates! They have the outlaw SLM's, plus two divisions on the small track with barely any cars... Again NOT a good value for the hefty front gate fee.

It's no wonder the "fans" aren't returning for these shows...


You are entitled to your opinion as everyone is here, but the truth of the matter is, you are in the minority here. You were one of the very few who did leave. Everyone else I talked to was happy with the show. And because we weren't running late, we were able to talk to quite a few people after the show. No one shared your same discontent. I felt the CRA race was competitive, and not a lot of cautions. Their Series comes with a hefty price tag, as most know. I'm sure the Flat Rock Management could of had different support divisions for this night, but this is how they chose to do it, and looking at attendence, and listening to most of the customers, it was a success.

Not your cup of tea, that is your opinion, others disagree with you.

I guess if you knew the price, and what the show was, why would you even go in the first place??? Not trying to be a butthead, I'm just curious.
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostBigEd, on 12 September 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

You are entitled to your opinion as everyone is here, but the truth of the matter is, you are in the minority here. You were one of the very few who did leave. Everyone else I talked to was happy with the show. And because we weren't running late, we were able to talk to quite a few people after the show. No one shared your same discontent. I felt the CRA race was competitive, and not a lot of cautions. Their Series comes with a hefty price tag, as most know. I'm sure the Flat Rock Management could of had different support divisions for this night, but this is how they chose to do it, and looking at attendence, and listening to most of the customers, it was a success.

Not your cup of tea, that is your opinion, others disagree with you.

I guess if you knew the price, and what the show was, why would you even go in the first place??? Not trying to be a butthead, I'm just curious.

I may be in the minority for leaving early but like I said in my previous post, the CRA 125 lap race was completed by approx 8:15pm, so most fans in the stands would be expected to stay for the next race based on the time and cost of their ticket. I am well aware of the cost of these shows and the strategy by track management to maximize profits while minimizing expenses... I understand that better than you think.

As far as others not sharing my discontent, I disagree with that! I heard others expressing their dissatisfaction for the event as well. I am not the only one to voice my displeasure about the cost of the $20 ticket for only two events for the night... I am the only one to do it on here! I am sure there were many that enjoyed the enduro that night, I just feel that for the $20 dollar front gate ticket for two events, the value or atleast the customers perceived value was not a success. Six weeks ago for the Stan Yee Memorial the front gate price was $20 and that show included the outlaw slm's for 150 laps, Street Stocks and Figure 8's... and a better entertainment value for $20 in my opinion.

I went to this event because there were late models running and that is the draw for me. Money is not the issue for me but for others it is. Just as these shows are not cheap for the promotor, they are not cheap for the fans in the stand either... but I hope everyone was entertained and got their monies worth.
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