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i wonder why tracks make some rules so i will ask for their reasoning. why no aluminum heads for dixie. you will be the only track around with that rule.but they are ok on the package engine ? dixie and auto city ,why do you approve of fab lower front arms when there are plenty of cheap stock one available and yet say no to coil over rears? it make no sense to have a expensive coil over eliminator and a seperate shock mount and shock next to it when they can be combined and be cheaper.
not to even mention that the old slow IMCA cars have had them for years now???????? plenty good enough for the cheapest of the cheap all over the united states. so not to be disrespectful of anyone or anything else i would like to hear some reasoning.
dixie wants to have the best late models but lock out the fastest mods from the rest of the world...............
explain your rules
MultiQuote
#2
duelly 
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 11:22 PM
Hey Dick well at least your mom named you right. Your buddy Jim Lesure is the the one who raised the cost of Mod racing he is the one who told the MMA if they did not allow AL heads he would drop them and Dan Logan had a helpin hand in that also. It is to bad that people like you would want to change rules to try and atracte a few USA Mods which if I remember right you said to me you would never race aganist. They tryed to run over you at Tri City and there OFFICALS ONLY TOOK CARE OF THERE ON. Quit your Bitchin and go racin. Hell down here at New Symra they only race for $300.00 to win and tires cost $125.00 each so shut up and be happy or else I will tell Kern about the payout down here.
duelly 8)
duelly 8)
#3
mod911
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:03 AM
ok there,first of all i believe the rules say al heads on authorized packages only. why do they get an advantage ? if they are so bad for racing we should not allow them at all for anyone.
why lower fab arms,i will sell them to anyone wanting stock ones,there are planty around.
i want to race usa mods cause they are a challenge and not many tracks are now days.
it is obvious that the locals want no competition. remember the last special i came to,no or few locals in the top ten qualifying or finishing. maybe the track should just say no winning except for locals. the quality of the locals diminishes with no competition.
imca has coil over rears for economy reasons not competitive advantage. i was told for years now that al heads were no advantage so quit whinning about racing against them.
why do no flint cars come to spartan,or kzoo. cause they can't compete with cars that race in the bigger world?
it should be embarassing to have the whole field of locals run the semi feature when a big show is run,even by local rules. but of course if the track wants only a handful of second rate quality just to have a show to sell tickets to is a different thing completely.
i do have my iron motor in right now as i am still building a new engine,so i may have to come trade my old motor for a new one as claiming should be encouraged insted of whinning as the main way of keeping engine costs down. i don't think any engines have ever been claimed in flint. the guys with dyno tested 600 -700 horse motors don't want to compete against equal horses OR lose their expensive motors.
ok i will shut up now but i hope someone does not get mad when i claim their motor for my old motor out or my old trans am. i will sacrifice it to make a point. no gentlemans agreement anymore.................
why lower fab arms,i will sell them to anyone wanting stock ones,there are planty around.
i want to race usa mods cause they are a challenge and not many tracks are now days.
it is obvious that the locals want no competition. remember the last special i came to,no or few locals in the top ten qualifying or finishing. maybe the track should just say no winning except for locals. the quality of the locals diminishes with no competition.
imca has coil over rears for economy reasons not competitive advantage. i was told for years now that al heads were no advantage so quit whinning about racing against them.
why do no flint cars come to spartan,or kzoo. cause they can't compete with cars that race in the bigger world?
it should be embarassing to have the whole field of locals run the semi feature when a big show is run,even by local rules. but of course if the track wants only a handful of second rate quality just to have a show to sell tickets to is a different thing completely.
i do have my iron motor in right now as i am still building a new engine,so i may have to come trade my old motor for a new one as claiming should be encouraged insted of whinning as the main way of keeping engine costs down. i don't think any engines have ever been claimed in flint. the guys with dyno tested 600 -700 horse motors don't want to compete against equal horses OR lose their expensive motors.
ok i will shut up now but i hope someone does not get mad when i claim their motor for my old motor out or my old trans am. i will sacrifice it to make a point. no gentlemans agreement anymore.................
#4 Guest_chris_*
Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:57 AM
Just out of curiosity is the claim rule still in the rules book for MMA and other Mod's ?
If so when is the last time someone was claimed and who was it ?
I am not trying to stir the pot but am curious to know if this rule is still there and if its still used .
Thanks,
Chris
If so when is the last time someone was claimed and who was it ?
I am not trying to stir the pot but am curious to know if this rule is still there and if its still used .
Thanks,
Chris
#5
mod4
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 11:06 AM
Dick,
The modified race I watch at spartan (harvest) they took out half the field in the first two restarts before they even had a lap in!! Spartan has alot of good modified drivers, but I wouldn't say they have the greatest competition!! Also Dick your alaways on here saying saying you want to race USA modified shows, but you weren't at the race in springport. When the series race in are back yard!! Just some comments from a young punk kid that doesn't know anything!! Have a good day!! 8)
The modified race I watch at spartan (harvest) they took out half the field in the first two restarts before they even had a lap in!! Spartan has alot of good modified drivers, but I wouldn't say they have the greatest competition!! Also Dick your alaways on here saying saying you want to race USA modified shows, but you weren't at the race in springport. When the series race in are back yard!! Just some comments from a young punk kid that doesn't know anything!! Have a good day!! 8)
Hodgeson Motorsports
#84
#84
#8
mod911
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 01:32 PM
i did not go to springport for other reasons not anything to do with usa mod series. i did not go because i did not think i could get a fair shake because of other reasons that most already know. besides the weather did not look good to me.
last time i raced icar mods there i did win 3 fast heats,2 features and was leading the third one when my rear gear went up in smoke with a very few laps to go. not bad out of 3 tries.
i have raced against al heads with no weight break for iron heads or for methanol. should be a weight break to make it fair for both and not just beacuse i have them. i did say many times that if al heads added 50 pounds on front it would be fine and i now say the same thing again. make it fair.
the usa mods have changed the reasons i did not race with them much now. they wondered why not many locals showed up to race with them so they asked. they wanted a built in advantage over locals is what i told them.
all i want is an even playing field,period.
i also raced outlaw mods last year,i did not see ANYONE i know there. i am not scared of any mod race car,dirt or paved.
spartan is the most intense race track except for tri-city possibly. come try it with me sometime.
last time i raced icar mods there i did win 3 fast heats,2 features and was leading the third one when my rear gear went up in smoke with a very few laps to go. not bad out of 3 tries.
i have raced against al heads with no weight break for iron heads or for methanol. should be a weight break to make it fair for both and not just beacuse i have them. i did say many times that if al heads added 50 pounds on front it would be fine and i now say the same thing again. make it fair.
the usa mods have changed the reasons i did not race with them much now. they wondered why not many locals showed up to race with them so they asked. they wanted a built in advantage over locals is what i told them.
all i want is an even playing field,period.
i also raced outlaw mods last year,i did not see ANYONE i know there. i am not scared of any mod race car,dirt or paved.
spartan is the most intense race track except for tri-city possibly. come try it with me sometime.
#9
MaddMike
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:42 PM
QUOTE(duelly)
Your buddy Jim Lesure is the the one who raised the cost of Mod racing he is the one who told the MMA if they did not allow AL heads he would drop them and Dan Logan had a helpin hand in that also.
This did not affect the cost of modified racing one single bit...
Mike
#10
mod911
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:38 PM
110 dollar tire and they complain about the necessary changes. my al heads are exactly the same as my iron heads,cost 50 more each. besides who has the cnc ported iron heads? at great cost. i know people who have em. does not matter how much they cost if they are iron does it.
i just wish the rules makers knew some facts about cars and racing instead of listening to people who do not race or raced another more expensive series and now are beat down to running a mod with unimpressive finishes.
i just wish the rules makers knew some facts about cars and racing instead of listening to people who do not race or raced another more expensive series and now are beat down to running a mod with unimpressive finishes.
#11 Guest_HRT187_*
Posted 24 March 2006 - 08:38 PM
QUOTE(mod911)
does not matter how much they cost if they are iron does it.
Matters a lot to the people that already had them, now its not such a value and they are bitter.
This is such a dead horse, I'm sick of it. This is after I'm buying a fresh set of coilover eliminators for the rear of an old car too. :evil: Might be time to hit the dirt.
#13
governor
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 11:36 PM
Chris,
With the exception of tires not being the same thru out MI, the only major
difference now is that Dixie is the only one NOT to allow aluminum heads.
I had not heard that the crate engine was allowed with alumium heads, but then I have not read the Dixie rules, but apparently others have.
I will have an iron head motor in for some shows and may show up
for one of the Dixie specials, as I have heard the new configuration is
a blast to race on.
Auto City does allow aluminum heads with an added 50 lbs, 2450 vs 2400.
In talking about weight breaks, maybe a quick change car should be allowed to have a 50 lb break, as it takes more HP to run one, plus
the one I put in weighed more than my 9" did. But with the traveling I
do it just makes since to have the QC.
Dick makes a good point about most MI drivers not running with any of
the traveling groups or even traveling to different tracks in state. There
are only a few of the MI drivers who have run very well when not at
their regular track. I can think of only 2 pavement tracks in MI that I
have not been on yet, Whittemore and Flat Rock, but that may well
change this year.
It does make you a better racer to try different tracks and stiffer comp,
but most seem unwilling to want to take some lumps or get outside of
their comfort zone.
One of the main reasons I decided to travel part of the time, is I get
tired of the local BS, that goes on between some of the drivers. There
seems to be a whole lot less of that when not at the same track all the
time.
I can proudly say that yes I had a hand in getting some changes made
in MI with the mods, even though some don't like what I have done.
But I'm not in this to win any popularity pole. I have been around racing
all my life and don't have a whole lot of interest other than racing. I guess
that is why I get involved. There may be some other changes coming too.
Sorry for rambiling on, but I haven't said much on here in awhile and I don't watch basketball and the fight on TV was boring.
The, Governor
With the exception of tires not being the same thru out MI, the only major
difference now is that Dixie is the only one NOT to allow aluminum heads.
I had not heard that the crate engine was allowed with alumium heads, but then I have not read the Dixie rules, but apparently others have.
I will have an iron head motor in for some shows and may show up
for one of the Dixie specials, as I have heard the new configuration is
a blast to race on.
Auto City does allow aluminum heads with an added 50 lbs, 2450 vs 2400.
In talking about weight breaks, maybe a quick change car should be allowed to have a 50 lb break, as it takes more HP to run one, plus
the one I put in weighed more than my 9" did. But with the traveling I
do it just makes since to have the QC.
Dick makes a good point about most MI drivers not running with any of
the traveling groups or even traveling to different tracks in state. There
are only a few of the MI drivers who have run very well when not at
their regular track. I can think of only 2 pavement tracks in MI that I
have not been on yet, Whittemore and Flat Rock, but that may well
change this year.
It does make you a better racer to try different tracks and stiffer comp,
but most seem unwilling to want to take some lumps or get outside of
their comfort zone.
One of the main reasons I decided to travel part of the time, is I get
tired of the local BS, that goes on between some of the drivers. There
seems to be a whole lot less of that when not at the same track all the
time.
I can proudly say that yes I had a hand in getting some changes made
in MI with the mods, even though some don't like what I have done.
But I'm not in this to win any popularity pole. I have been around racing
all my life and don't have a whole lot of interest other than racing. I guess
that is why I get involved. There may be some other changes coming too.
Sorry for rambiling on, but I haven't said much on here in awhile and I don't watch basketball and the fight on TV was boring.
The, Governor
#14 Guest_chris_*
Posted 25 March 2006 - 10:27 AM
It isn't a secret how I feel about Dixie. Kern and I no longer send Xmas cards to each other.
I personally have nothing against Mike Kern as an individual I simply don't agree with his style of promoting.
He owns a beautiftul track with an awesome layout. He has done a helluva job bringing that track into the 21st century. But all good comments end there. He does little to work with other promoters with his rules, which in the end hurt racing and the racer. He sure isnt the greatest people person I have ever met and he has created a few enemies along the way. What he has done has essentially placed himself on an island by snubbing his nose at other tracks in regards to their rules and if he had a winning formula for a rules package it would be different, but he misses the boat on that issue. I only hope he sells the track to someone with some serious money who will sit down with all the other promoters and say " give me your rules and I will work with you to match them ".
In as far as the Mod's are concerned, they are a great division ( despite not having fenders...lol.) and are a needed component to ensure success in local racing. Hopefully a few more updates can be brought in to make racing more affordable for all of you.
I wish all of you the best of luck in 2006.
Chris
I personally have nothing against Mike Kern as an individual I simply don't agree with his style of promoting.
He owns a beautiftul track with an awesome layout. He has done a helluva job bringing that track into the 21st century. But all good comments end there. He does little to work with other promoters with his rules, which in the end hurt racing and the racer. He sure isnt the greatest people person I have ever met and he has created a few enemies along the way.
What he has done has essentially placed himself on an island by snubbing his nose at other tracks in regards to their rules and if he had a winning formula for a rules package it would be different, but he misses the boat on that issue. I only hope he sells the track to someone with some serious money who will sit down with all the other promoters and say " give me your rules and I will work with you to match them ".
In as far as the Mod's are concerned, they are a great division ( despite not having fenders...lol.) and are a needed component to ensure success in local racing. Hopefully a few more updates can be brought in to make racing more affordable for all of you.
I wish all of you the best of luck in 2006.
Chris
#15 Guest_HRT187_*
Posted 25 March 2006 - 10:32 AM
Chris,
Dan's pretty much said it all and I agree with him. Aluminum rear hubs are the only cost saving item that no modifieds can run. I agree with the QC disadvantage, but for simplicity sake I wouldnt worry about it.
Dixie is not allowing the aluminum heads or coilovers. The old car that I have had coilover eliminators on it that were completely shot, would have been the perfect time to put it on regular coilover springs, but since thats the car that Chris Hettinger will be driving at Dixie, we had to buy the more expensive coilover eliminators.
I also decided against using the aluminum OEM heads that I have for the engine going in this car. Oh well.
Dan's pretty much said it all and I agree with him. Aluminum rear hubs are the only cost saving item that no modifieds can run. I agree with the QC disadvantage, but for simplicity sake I wouldnt worry about it.
Dixie is not allowing the aluminum heads or coilovers. The old car that I have had coilover eliminators on it that were completely shot, would have been the perfect time to put it on regular coilover springs, but since thats the car that Chris Hettinger will be driving at Dixie, we had to buy the more expensive coilover eliminators.
I also decided against using the aluminum OEM heads that I have for the engine going in this car. Oh well.
#16
cpracer
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 07:50 PM
Well Chris I know you are all the way down in Tennesee but I will tell you this much. Mike Kern is the only promoter that I currently race with that actually hears what his drivers have to say. He asked all the drivers opinions after the 200 lapper last year and made the changes to the race this year that was most popular, he along with myself agree that the AL head rule was not needed and DOES add cost, I find that buying 18 Deg heads, headers and intake plus pistons means that you add cost to the mod no if's and's or but's about it. I am sure you will appreciate this one Chris, Mike called me to ask if it would affect my sponsorship, if Dixie were to inquire about sponsorship for the track from one of my current sponsors, I found that to be 1st class! 
The AL head issue is this, some people seem to find it easy to buy 23 Deg AL. heads and call it good, to me that doesnt make sense, the 18 Deg head makes more power so thats the only reason you would want AL heads right? Race Head Reaserch (Formerly PRO) makes a great 23 Deg steel Head for $500 and change it will flow as good as a 23 AL head, so why do you need the rule???????? I give big props to Mike Kern for not allowing the AL heads, besides lets not loose sight of the fact MMA is only at 2 tracks in Michigan who really cares what THEY do, they charge big money for a membership, then they make you attend a banquet to get any return on your point payout and the banquet is far enough away that you need a hotel, sounds like a bad deal to me. Thanks and see you all soon, Claude
The AL head issue is this, some people seem to find it easy to buy 23 Deg AL. heads and call it good, to me that doesnt make sense, the 18 Deg head makes more power so thats the only reason you would want AL heads right? Race Head Reaserch (Formerly PRO) makes a great 23 Deg steel Head for $500 and change it will flow as good as a 23 AL head, so why do you need the rule???????? I give big props to Mike Kern for not allowing the AL heads, besides lets not loose sight of the fact MMA is only at 2 tracks in Michigan who really cares what THEY do, they charge big money for a membership, then they make you attend a banquet to get any return on your point payout and the banquet is far enough away that you need a hotel, sounds like a bad deal to me. Thanks and see you all soon, Claude
#17 Guest_HRT187_*
Posted 25 March 2006 - 07:58 PM
The flip side of that is the guy that will wrap $8k in a set of CNCd Iron heads to make the same power as a set of the aluminum heads that you are so afraid of.
Not allowing 18* aluminum heads would have been fine. But shutting the door on my $100ea L98 vette heads from the 80s is kinda a drag. The only reason I wanted to use them is weight, but against other iron heads it doesn't matter. Going on the road with irons at some of the tighter tracks is going to be a weight (height) disadvantage.
Claude,
Since you have the inside word, what is the story on the coilovers? I know your car doesn't have provisions for them, but how would that affect others with different cars? Am I the only person that would have saved money because I am rebuilding old cars?
Not allowing 18* aluminum heads would have been fine. But shutting the door on my $100ea L98 vette heads from the 80s is kinda a drag. The only reason I wanted to use them is weight, but against other iron heads it doesn't matter. Going on the road with irons at some of the tighter tracks is going to be a weight (height) disadvantage.
Claude,
Since you have the inside word, what is the story on the coilovers? I know your car doesn't have provisions for them, but how would that affect others with different cars? Am I the only person that would have saved money because I am rebuilding old cars?
#18
MaddMike
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 08:06 PM
Claude- It seems once again you have forgotten about the 14 degree IRON heads that can be purchased for $5000 pr....Did you want them custom ported as well???
If there isn't a rule specifying 23 degree heads...Why haven't you bought a set?
It doesn't matter if it's Iron or Aluminum, the money can be spent If someone wants to throw it away...
If I were looking for max horsepower, I'd sure rather be able to buy used stuff...Haven't seen any 14 degree Iron heads at Swap meets, have you?
Mike
If there isn't a rule specifying 23 degree heads...Why haven't you bought a set?
It doesn't matter if it's Iron or Aluminum, the money can be spent If someone wants to throw it away...
If I were looking for max horsepower, I'd sure rather be able to buy used stuff...Haven't seen any 14 degree Iron heads at Swap meets, have you?
Mike
#19 Guest_chris_*
Posted 25 March 2006 - 08:27 PM
Claude:
If anything you should at least feel privaleged that Mike will consult with you. It hasnt been the case with many other people. Case in point, the abortion job he did with the USPRO/SuperPro cars.
If his program and the way he runs it works for you then by all means you should race there. Just remember your going to be missing out on that pot of gold at Owosso located inside their point fund........lol
All kidding aside, if you want to stand on that island with Mike, heck thats your choice. As for myself I have never wanted to get too close to him for fear of getting hit by a stray bullett. That's the great thing about America, we all have choices and the freedom to follow our own paths however we see fit.
Good luck this season. Are you racing a Mod, Super or both ?
Chris
P.S. I agree with you on MMA. As for TN, heck I haven't been home in several months. I need a map to find the place. I am wondering if I still have a house standing or if its fallen down.
If anything you should at least feel privaleged that Mike will consult with you. It hasnt been the case with many other people. Case in point, the abortion job he did with the USPRO/SuperPro cars.
If his program and the way he runs it works for you then by all means you should race there. Just remember your going to be missing out on that pot of gold at Owosso located inside their point fund........lol
All kidding aside, if you want to stand on that island with Mike, heck thats your choice. As for myself I have never wanted to get too close to him for fear of getting hit by a stray bullett. That's the great thing about America, we all have choices and the freedom to follow our own paths however we see fit.
Good luck this season. Are you racing a Mod, Super or both ?
Chris
P.S. I agree with you on MMA. As for TN, heck I haven't been home in several months. I need a map to find the place. I am wondering if I still have a house standing or if its fallen down.
#20
PFD
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 10:35 PM
Wow and I thought everything was cool around the mod rule world. I'm with Chris on this one, what the hell happened. I would like to personally thank MMA (they are the ones who decided to be democratic and take a vote on the head issue.) Duelly where do you get your info anyway? I mean really, I have been shooting for aluminum heads for years. There are a bunch of us who have wanted them. Jim Leisure only had to listen to us, he was OUR voice at the meetings. No one else seemed to mention what any of us brought up. So I guess I'll personally thank Jim for finally taking my words into consideration. Last year I made a survey to hand out to drivers and present to MMA. Somehow it went from "let's open things up a bit" to "hey everybody lets run crate engines". Personally if we ran crate engines I would leave the mods. If I wanted to run a spec motor I would buy a Superpro or something of the sort. I like the mods because of the community and competitiveness. I am enthusiasticly looking forward to this season. I think the introduction of coil overs, aluminum heads, quick changes are all a step in the right direction. No one is forcing anyone to make these changes. There will be plenty of cars running just like we were and be quick. Cars don't get quicker because of fancy parts, they get quicker because of knowledge. Fancy parts just make better use of the latest and greatest set up technology. Do I want a super late model modified, sure. But we still need a econo class as well. Let's put 10" tires on them get rid of the claim and see what we got. Does anyone realize the "street stocks" are going to be as fast as modifieds at spartan. Does that really make sense? Mods should be second not third, at least that's my opinion.
Dan (Govenor)
I would also like to extend a thank you to you as well for voicing our opinions. They seem to listen to you a whole lot more than me. You do have a few more years in all this than I do. Some day.....
Those guys down at New Smyrna could take a lesson from us, maybe they would get paid more.
Dan (Govenor)
I would also like to extend a thank you to you as well for voicing our opinions. They seem to listen to you a whole lot more than me. You do have a few more years in all this than I do. Some day.....
Those guys down at New Smyrna could take a lesson from us, maybe they would get paid more.