Was just wondering why in the HELL do these RENT A COPS think that what they do to people is JUSTIFIED!!!! They use EXCESSIVE force on people for no reason and then say that the person ASSULTED them... YEAH right... I was watching the race when it was coming down to the final lap and the flag man once again couldn't find which flag to throw when the caution came about so what does he do but throw the yellow and checker at the same time what a joke.... So someone came down the front stretch like SO MANY DO to yelled at the racer and then some BIG RENT a COP came and tried to get him away from the gate which I understand... But then another rent a cop comes FLYING from the PIT GATE area and jumps right in the middle of things without ASSESSING the situation once again and as the guy was walking toward the exit and trying to get them to leave him alone they JUMPED him and tossed him to the ground and the BIG GUY AND STICK man BOB lie on top of him which anyone would try to get someone off of them so that they could breath... So what do they do but slap the cuffs on the man and start screaming at family which was trying to help there freind and all they could do was say that he assulted them... I heard the one TALL BOB say that he knocked his radio out of his hand WOW that is reason right there to take force on someone... A couple of weeks ago I seen the same rent a cop start yelling at Sterns and told him the he was banned from the race track and that he will never race there agian.... HMMMM I think that I seen STERNS win this week and he wasn't banned huh ... WORD of advise MR. KERN you need to keep in check what your so called SECURITY are doing... Somone is going to get SERIOUSLY hurt by them trying to take force with people there is NO reason for it...

Wow that all made perfect sense.

Ray

i don't think rent a cops can cuff anyone, so maybe they are not rent a cops.

wow that was crazy , I couldnt beleive my eyes they way they treated that guy, and his daughter was watching in complete terror. The flag man definitly needs replaced , Mike Kern learned his lesson a couple yrs ago on running his track , I hope Joe learns too but the more I go and nothing ever gets done I loose faith in the system , and Mike will satrt suffering again if the flag man doesnt change every one around was aw struck for the third weekend in a row on how that flag man can not find his flags, or throws the wrong color and cause mass caos , I can not beleive it i thougt okay he is new then i realized he is the cause of this whole situation just as a few other instances if i were mike i would beg, plead and borrow for steve or bart back not that they were the best but they were not a cluster! I feel bad for the family of Sue, wow dont let a good thing go astray it happen once and it could happen again!

I am not quite sure of this as I have lost track of the laws, but I do believe anyone, including a citizen can make a citizens arrest if they witnessed the individual committing a felony. I do not be believe security guards are allowed to handcuff an individual for a misdemeanor and detain them. ( I could be wrong though )

If the guards were actually deputized or off duty police officers then they have the right to detain and handcuff a citizen for what they believe is a crime committed in their presence, be it a misdemeanor or felony.

Someone would have to research the laws on this. But I believe most security guards are instructed ( or they should be instructed ) that if a felony is committed in their presence they can detain the individual for the police, otherwise they are to call the police and let them handle the situation.

Using overzealous security guards is a great way to get your butt sued. I still like Berlins answer to security - Deputized County Mounties on Horseback. They are professional and well trained at crowd control and handling rowdies. Most security guards are given handcuffs, a badge and uniform and sent out into the public with little to no training and paid a little more then minimum wage.

Chris

Well last night I was talking to a security at Auto City not related to Dixie to ask his outlook on what happend and he said that they can not make arrest and that they did go way over board... He said that Bob is way out of control and that they need to do something about him..The Big guy in the black was his first night out and Bob was I think a X military cop??? He also said that the one girl works for the flint police department but is not a cop and BOB is her husband or boyfriend... He aslo said that all the can do is detain them till the cops get there and then they DON"T have the right to make a arrest... By the way the big guy came out an gave the cuffs to another guy they were not even his cuffs...You think that if you are going to play the part of SECURITY you better have the right equipment to back it all up...

I just try not to put myself in a position where I have to deal with security guards. that way I don't have to worry about them using excessive force and what not. Seems to work good for me. To each there own though


Ray

I just try not to put myself in a position where I have to deal with security guards. that way I don't have to worry about them using excessive force and what not. Seems to work good for me. To each there own though ...


Well I really don't think that he wanted to deal with security guards he was just voicing his opionion like so many other people have done in the past look at the 888 crew a few weeks ago when the black flagged him they where right down by the flag stand and yelling at them and even looking up to the tower and nothing was said to them it was just this guy who thought he was playing god and took into his own hands

I was not there friday night, dont know what happened. What I do know is that there should be two people on that flagstand at all times. One person can not watch the whole track, turn the light on, and reach for flags in a reasonable amount of time. I goto a lot of different tracks and "most" of the time there are always two people in the flagstand. I don't care who is up there and how long they have been flagging races when something happens when you are reaching for flags your already to late to stop something that should have never happened. The second person up there does not have to be a veteran by any means, just enough knowledge of racing to hand the other guy flags and watch a corner. Hope this changes at dixie because, the flagman has a lot of responsibility and if not on his/her toes can cost people a lot of money.........

I agree 100 %. The second person also acts as an understudy in the event the main flagman cannot make a race due to sickness or whatever. It always helps to have a second set of eyes as well as someone who can hand the right flags to the flag man.

Great post Superfan. You are very right.

Chris

I didn't see what happened, but I was told by people who were within 1 foot of the guy, that before the gentleman was detained by security he elbowed and pushed children out of the way to get to the flag stand including the feature winners daughter. I also understand he was trying to get on the track to go after Al Boitel, not the flag man. The flag man did not grab the yellow on accident. Newman Sr. dumped Walther on the last lap and that is the reason the flagman threw both flags.

Flat Rock has the Sheriff department do their security. I have seen them arrest people with their family members there... maybe that's why they have actual police officers (usually they're off duty, like the ambulance attendents).

Maybe the best one I ever hear of was Mansfield in Ohio. This is maybe about 6-7 yrs ago. You got caught fighting, you were detained, the police called and you went for a trip to the police station. They said it really cut down on things, because you ended up with a decent size fine.

Well he was not trying to get on the track he was yelling through the fence and if there was any eblowing being thrown it was because of the extreme force that these RENT a COPS think that they have do to the SECURITY on there shirts... They have no reason to man handle anyone..I know for a fact that he won't push any CHILD out of the way do to the fact that if anyone had done that to his child he would get upset..and if that did happen don't you think that the BOITELS would have gotten upset and went after him?????? Think about it!!!!!

the head of security at Dixie is an actual police officer, but I do think you guys are right they tend to think they are on duty as opposed to just being security for the night. By the way who is on the flag stand now a days at Dixie???

If this guy was going to go after Big Al Boitel he has a screw loose! Al is no light weight.


Greg

Who is the Head of Security there???? It wasn't anyone who was involved in this it was the big guys first day on the job and Bob has been there for a while and neither one of them are cops.... WANT A BE IS ALL THEY ARE!!!!!!!! Yes he had a few words for Boitel I think he can handle himself no matter what size someone is...

THEY ARE FUNNY ARNT THEY.

ITS ALSO FUNNY HOW THE SAME RACIN TEAMS THAT CRY ABOUT ROUGH DRIVIN AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE THE ONES INVOLVED IN MOST OF THE PROBLEMS.

RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU RUSH THE GATE TO COMPLAIN OR THROW TRASH CANS YOUR GETTING BEAT UP BY THE SECURITY.

I GUESS MAYBY YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK TWICE BEFORE RUNNING DOWN TO COMPLAIN


01 JOE

SORRY BUT I DON"T BELONG TO ANY RACE TEAM I AM NOT A RACER NOR WILL I EVER BE I LIKE TO WATCH AND ENJOY THE RACES I JUST CAN'T STAND SECURITY THAT THINK THAT THEY CAN CAUSE ALL THIS DRAMA WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED DIFFERENTLY.. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ROUGH DRIVIN AND I AM NOT WITH ANY CREW THAT CAUSES PROBLEMS...I AM SURE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT ANYTHING IN YOUR RACIN DAYS????

{Yes he had a few words for Boitel I think he can handle himself no matter what size someone is.}.. ..{I know for a fact that he won't push any CHILD out of the way do to the fact that if anyone had done that to his child he would get upset.} were you with this person?

Some people dont quite understand the use of the flags... I feel the flagman is using the flags exactly correctly. The person earlier had it right.. When the accident happens as the flagman is ready to wave or is waving the checkered flag , then he grabs the yellow and waves it with the checkered and that is what he has done every time. It looks like he is fumbling the flags because he is trying to grab them and wave them quickly. I dont know the flagman there , but he has done it all correctly.... On the other hand, they do need a second person up there to handle other things.

The racing is very good at Dixie this year, so go check it out.

Your getting a bunch of opinions on this and what people dont see is that right before all that stuff, the racing was good smooth night, and I seen Mr. Kern down in the stands talking with the woolworths and everybody was having a good time, everybody was hoping Jay would hold the bottom , but couldnt do it and dam, everything turned from fun to what folks are writing about.. What people should learn , is let the drivers handle whats going on, it may/maynot even be a issue and as for the flags, you dont know what is told in the drivers meetings etc.... so sit back drink a beer and enjoy the show folks!!!

We keep doing all this and making these owners find out that it isnt worth the $$ to deal with the crap, then what will we have to enjoy,,,,NASCAR!!! I dont think so...


Todd

so sit back drink a beer and enjoy the show folks!!!



THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM....WAY TOO MANY BEERS IN THE STANDS!....THEN THEY ALL HAVE AN OPINION

RELAX, I WASNT DIRECTING MY COMMENT TO YOU! EVERYONE NEEDS TO RELAX, EVERYONE NOW DAYS GET SO UPSET OVER THE PREDICTABLE THINGS THAT HAPPEN AT A TRACK.

IM NOT SAYING ITS RIGHT OR FAIR, LET IT BE FUN AGAIN OR QUIT

01 JOE

hey drama angel!

why do you have to be in the middle of everyone's business at the tracks, I must say you sure do live for the drama! you run around these tracks and get in the middle of stuff with a bunch of different drivers, you are not related to any of them, you are not part of their teams. stay out of it and let the drivers handle it for themselves. from what I understand the situation was already addressed by mike & krista, and it was considered over by all parties involved, so why are your panties in a tight wad?

just for anyone who didnt know the rule at dixie is that once the white flag comes out the next flag will be the checkered so when the cars were spinning the flagman did the right thing by waving both flags so that the drivers knew that there was an incident on the track that the drivers needed to be aware of.

greg

Thank you, onthegas for being so concerned about my panties!!!!! For one I was asking an OPINION on the Security Issue ...

I will only comment that the scenario described in this forum is not complete. More happened and the party involved understands that he made a mistake.


That is all I will say about the issue, Dixie has to maintain control.

MY OPINION IS SIMPLE, UNTIL MIKE MAKES A FEW CHANGES IN HIS SECURITY PEOPLE DONT RUN DOWN TO THE FLAG GUY CUZ YOU WILL PROBABLY GET STRANGLED LOL

JOE

THAT IS TRUE, AND IM SURE ITS NOT A EASY THING TO DO.

JOE

Is this the first time or has it happened with this particular individual before? Is there a rule about fans interfering with racing operations?

I'm sorry the but details in this account seem a bit slanted. Unless this individual is suffering from serious injuries, don't see a problem with the security's reaction to this situation. I don't think a beat down occurred according to your statement devilishangel, just restraining a rowdy individual attempting to interfere with racing operations.

IMO

Screw it..

Tazar him next time.

End of story and end of people rushing the flag stand.

...........

Chris

GO CHRIS hit em with the old stun gun! the next time they will think before acting from there drink

Ice, I don't know what you mean by off duty? The Sheriff Department is on duty, they are full time officers at the track. They can and have arrested and sent people to jail from the track. The ambulance attendants come with the ambulance and they are contracted to be there. It is their job and they are at work (enviable job!) They also have a security company that works along with the two sheriffs.