It seems that this year the mods have taken a hit. Is there a reason for such low car counts this year there has been as few as 8 at the track and I dont think there has been more than 25 estimated at a time is this the next group to go under
any thoughts?

What track?

A/C and dixie

A/C might have something else wrong, but I think Dixie has a few cars out from crashes. On the other hand they had 18 cars just 3 weeks ago... and that's on a Friday night so I don't think it's time for the 21 gun salute yet.

It has never been the norm for those tracks to have 25 cars, Dixie did it a few times last year, and before that the only time I remember car counts like that was when Owosso was one of the only tracks in the state with them.

I doubt this is the next class to fail, but until the rules are the same everywhere I wouldnt put much confidence in them either.

I did recently consider building another mod to run some pavement next season, but if I did I wouldnt bother with any of the local scene, cept maybe kzoo. USAmods only.

There has been a lot of crashed and blown engines in Mods this year which is one of the reasons for the low count. In addition, there are more tracks now on Saturday's in Michigan that run Mods (Zoo and Whittemore has more Mod shows as well).

A-C and Dixie have different rules than the rest of the United States and shut out most cars from the real world. Aluminum heads and coil overs are ok everywhere but there. I have iron heads now but still have coil overs and I do not cry about al heads like some in Flint do.
Angola has $1000 to win shows regular and do not have semi features. A rookie with no races can come now and get on the pole cause of a complete invert from so few cars.That causes damage and stacks up the fast guys and wrecks more stuff we can hardly afford to buy the first time. Then we lose cars cause they are expensive to fix in a week. Having a grand sittin around to replace good parts wrecked for no good reason is not easy
There are a lot of good cars in garages sitting. Cheap tricks and rule changes and tire changes and memberships and parking slabs or fees,3 dollar fuel,25 dollar pit passes,no pay increase to help off set these costs are a few reasons that pop up immediately. Not to mention the 110 tire.
$500 dollar weekends for costs and winning $200 really helps week after week.We seem to run 30 - 40 lap features every week now instead of 20. That drives up cost very quickly,yet same pay as 20 lappers were long ago.
Now we are expected to bring bikes to give away,candy and pics and such for autograph night. Sometimes we are asked to race for free to help out this or that.We are asked to do the marketing and take the chance of no pay if no spectators show up.If a record crowd showed up we see no extra cash at the pay window. We are only at risk and stand to gain little or nothing if we win.
That is why I say dirt bikes and a Harley are looking good these days. Not to mention they can be resold for more than an old race car.
Racing is a lose,lose,lose situation. How much fun $$$ are we having is the big question.This getting treated as a second class citizen at tracks is also great. Seems the ones who work at tracks consider us racers expendable and if they weren't working there we would have no place to race and if we do not agree with them we can go elsewhere.
Arrogant workers are going to make me go away next year at one track.Giving all the breaks to a few people (special) is nice.

Ummmm it may be that it went from a great lower level division that was affordable to a 10-20k to feild a good competetive car class. I see that as a big issue that may keep some from joining.
just look at where the super lates went. It also seems to keep getting worse. Aluminum heads, penske shocks, now coil overs the are morphing into late models in my opinion. I know some may dis agree, but look at the difference in just the last 10 years.

Though I'm no expert on how the cars work myself, If eel a race track should take a chance and make Modifieds their weekly flagship division. They've been putting on awesome races out at owosso for years and these tracks could probably save a little money on what they're spending on Limited and Super Late Models by giving the Mods the ball to run with. But, with the lower car counts this year (though we did see a season high car count in that division out at Owosso last Saturday before the rains) might hinder that option.

they need to pay the class better something like this550,425,375,325,300,275,265,255,245,236,225,220,215,210,205,200,200,200,200,200
how many would run for this

SOLD!!!

usa mod have been anyware from 20 to 50

Please don't tell me that you are yet another person who thinks mods want to run SLM coilovers.

For the 300th time....All this is is a $20 kit that allows the same 5" coil spring to fit onto the existing shock absorber. Running it that way eliminates a $150 part.

Mike

That could happen at Owosso, but the owners race there and they own LLM's.

Mike

Yeah those guys never over do it do they??? I gotta spend more mony to go faster is the mindset of a racer. I got a buck says if it not policed racers will be running SLM coil overs! In fact I already know of one.

how many more mods do you like you could get with that pay base its only 2,000 more and it helps out all drivers

That would be great, where would the $2000 come from though?

Mike

The rule states 5" minimum diameter springs. If it doesn't it was mis-written.

Mike

AC seems to be a problem with the way the track is run. I have been to Kalamazoo and Angola and they had good car counts. Went to Dixie on the destruction day and they had 19 or so cars. Dixie would have more I am sure if they ran on Saturday. If AC was run like the other 3 I just mentioned I am sure the car counts would be up. I wonder what AC will do with the mods for next year? I am sick of only racing with a few cars, it is much more fun when there is a full field. I wont continue there with only 8 cars, I will find somewhere else even though I do enjoy that track.

K-Zoo is getting about 15 cars every night and it is the first year for mods there.

Here is the payout for the mods at K-Zoo -

A Feature $600-450-350-300-275-250-225-200-175-150 to start

Last Chance Positions 1-6 transfer to A Feature - 7th $125 - 8th $115 - 9th $110 - 100 to start

Here is the points payout for K-Zoo -

$3000, 1350, 850, 750, 600, 500, 400, 350, 325, 300, 280, 260, 240, 220, 200, ***150

*** Any driver in any class that finishes 16th place or lower in their respective class points, while missing only 1 or less regular season events for that class, will receive that amount for that class.

This is BY FAR the best deal for racing a mod weekly. A little bit of a travel for the east siders but all I hear is complaining about the tracks that run Saturday night over there, so why not travel get paid better, have fun and get treated good.

I do not work for K-Zoo but have worked on a team that has raced there and a lot of other tracks and K-Zoo is the best in my opinion.

We do not get a lot of complaints in our mods. We are bi weekly program and average about 18 or so. We have been up and down from that number. Most of the reason we have our mods is because they are dissatisfied with competing elseware. Complaints of rough driving that were never addressed and the usual kinds of things. We have remained pro active in addressing concerns. We do not expect to go down in car counts. I know of 2 more that are trying to get finished before the end of the year. I dont do the payout but I am told we pay just a little better than other tracks on the top and through the middle. It probably is an offset because people travel to get to us. Our mods have a driver funded and promoted points program that rivals most I have heard about. I am biased of course but I think the class is strong vs the way our track is situated on the map.

mod 911, Your statement about mod rookies is way off line, if your that much faster you will get around the traffic, dont blame them for wadding up your car. I am a rookie in the mod division and I will gladly move out of the way for anyone that is faster, Im getting faster every week and learning every step of the way but im sure that you were a rookie at one time. this is not intended to be an argument , just a statement as I will move over until I feel that I am ready to be in the pack, but I will forever try to help rookies not ridicule them just as Gavin Hunyady, Claude plante, Madd Mike, Dan Logan, Bill and Mike luckhurst, and many more have helped me. good day Mr. Maurer

Well said Ryan,,,,We were all rookie's at one time,,, even Mr. Maurer. If we all just helped instead of tearing people apart, the fields would be bigger because more ROOKIES would be worried about being in the way and getting dumped. Constructive suggestions are one thing,and can be good.. Just taking people apart, is not good for any of us,,, even those outside wanting to contribute $$$$ to teams or tracks... We all need to be careful how we vent here, you never know who may be looking at how professional someone may be to give $$$$ to, and represent there company.
The Wizard

Well Ryan all you can do is make the car the best you can and then be patient. You are smart to let a guy go if he has position on you.

The old saying goes, to finish first, first you must finish. It does not matter if you are a rokkie or in your prime or even past your prime, if you put yourself in bad positions and wreck, you wont win.

When you look at a winner like say Bill Luckhurst, he does not wreck often, he drives the wheels off that car at the end of a race, I have seen him have a second or 3rd place car and still win just by determination. That comes with experience and to earn respect from a guy you have to be able to race hard but clean.

If a guy has position, you give him his lane to race in and then do your best to get back around or get in line.

Spartan mods have been the biggest class at that track all year, usually about fifteen or better.

right now, the Spartan mods have had the following cars out for more than half the season.

I have been out for medical reasons since July 7.

Dick LaPratt has been out because of shoulder surgery since July 7.

Perry Davenport has only recently been able to return to the track since a fire devastated his season last spring, ran early on in loaned equipment and decided to stop until his stuff was ready.

Bud Perry, a regular mod competitor, we all know what has happened in his life.

Jason Parish has taken a racing break for this year.

We lost Brian Heeney.

Maynard Bigelow's ride was trashed early in the season, it's life is over.

There are just six regular mod drivers at Spartan that for reasons outside of their control, are out for the year, or have had limited ability to get to the track.

The 'zoo has good car counts also.

Just some thoughts.

have a good day,

schinde

thank you for the hijack rescue!

I agree with Chucks comments, this has been a bad year for crashes and engine problems in the mod class.

Mr.Mauer helped me out when I was a rookie @ Owasso back in '95 and was very helpfull. He would come over adjust jack screws, sway bar and even took out my brake adjuster one time. But he helped me get faster and more consistant. I would never have guessed he hated rookies. Dumby me I thaught he wanted to help me! LOL!

Some want to hear what they want to hear. I am not putting down rookies at all. If I had the fanciest basketball in the world I would still not be a professional player in the NBA. I would be in the way and get run over. But I sure would demand to be a starter because I had a ball and thought I was hot stuff. I would realize that I have to pay my dues and practice for years to blend in with the good guys. Just because someone says they are ready after a season or two does not mean they are ready. Being your own coach will get you no where. Some one asked why car counts are low and I said a few reasons that I can see. Rookies who keep their car straight all around the track and hold their line are just fine to race with.That lasts for a few races then sideways they go.I pulled out of a heat race at Spartan a month ago cause every car ahead of me was sideways and out of control so I saved myself money by pulling in and not being wrecked. Too expensive to teach rookies.
Everyone gives Bill 2 lanes when he shows them a nose. The same person will drill me in the side after crossing the extra lane I left him and trash my stuff. I got taken out of the lead by 3 vets in one race this year,long time vets.

There are more than one reason for low counts but ecessive crashing by out of control drivers is only one. Maybe I touched a tender spot with the rookies. Your peers will judge when you are ready.
I was out a few weeks ago and I let my son drive and I told him to keep the car straight and hold steady when getting lapped. The EXACT same thing I say to rookies who are not related to me. Keep it straight and under control. You are not ready to race with the 10-20 year veterans. I could have told him to start on the pole and put it sideways off the corner and all the way down the stretch and if some one wants to pass run into them and blame it on him cause you have 2 races in now and are not a rookie. Tell em you are ready.
I suggested radios so the tower can tell people to straighten out and drive right and help prevent crashes and the pack driving into a spun out car. Who volunteered to get a radio. Not one damn sole said they would. That would save money for us racers.
I watched Earl Miles get run into the turn 1-2 wall by a rookie. He was out and had a major crash bill. Who cared? Noone. Was the rookie talked to by anyone? No. Will he do it again? Probably will cause he learned nothing. Haven't seen much of Earl lately either.

I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but rather diffuse this argument.

I don't think anyone is meaning to imply that Dick is not helpful to his competitors, especially when they ask for help,a nd are willing to learn from his experience. (much like you did Conrad) However, Dick has mentioned his frustration with some rookie drivers running thier mouths and driving over their heads on several occasions. I think this case is just a misunderstanding between a rookie that is trying very hard to learn and stay safe and a veteran's opinion that is directed towards other rookies that are not as thoughtful of their competitors as Ryan is.


BTW Where have you been Conrad?

When I left the pavement in '96 I ran dirt mods for 2 yrs. than dirt late models for 4 years took. Than took a few years off to get family and house built. Sam provided me another dirt mod chassis(Windpusher) to run. Raced only 2x's since I got it from him. Spendable cash is tight. Hopefully next year we will run the mod more. My two boys have also started racing quarter midgets. So we will see. If I had the money I would race 3x's a week. And I wasnt trying to argue just more or less a story about Dick that he probably dont remember! I have always admired 911's style and intensity.

62 did you run a red and white mod back then? I raced Owosso in the LLM in 95 and 6 blue #16 with Orange #'s

I realy think people now days that have racecars in general just cant afford it period
people like Dick and the rest of the racing people from go karts to latemodels get Tired
of people that dont have a clue what there doing take good cars out Then the Veteran drivers
take the time to try to help them and they wont listen TRUST ME i had many talks by Dick ,Larry Wallace Now I race dirt guys like Joey Fowler Will help me and you go to these guys shops they have championships and walls of trophys they been around a long time I wouldnt take it real personal!!!! Racing isnt what it used to be its more like a job you have to pay to work at every friday and saturday Now i know what my Dad and Ron Parrish meant last year when they said there just tired after 30 yrs of racing I can see where there coming from now every weekend i dont race i feel rich on Monday


Mod 73

Orange and white. I remember your limited.

No names are meant or implied to be the case in this response, but I wonder just how many classes of cars and fans have maxxed out Visa's that they have funded their hobbies on. If that is holding people back they probably will not say they are totally broke, they will just try and shovel out. When gas jumps to 3 or 3.50 a gallon then that affects how much extra they can pay down per month. I have always wondered how many are in silent grief about their debt.

Nope it was blue with an orange #16 as I remember.

I loved that car, it was fast and won alot of races. Why did I sell it again? lol

i believe lance troyer still runs it at dixie

Dick,I have started in the back every race. I was not aiming to start an argument. I believe that in mods, limiteds, and supers that you should be mandated to start in the back until your peers vote on you to race, maybe that is far fetched but believe me I know how much it costs to race in this higher division. I do not want to wad up my car but im not going to baby it either, but I will continue to start in the back until I get the car to do what I need it to do, Thanks for all the advice everyone. oh yeah when Bill comes by ill get out of the way gritting my teeth the whole time, working on my car until whee hours of the morning, and KNOWING THAT I WILL GET FASTER AND STICK THAT NOSE OF THAT CAR IN THERE WHEN THE CAR IS READY, no hard feelings here....

I respect new people who try to get up to speed before they try to get in front of 10 fast experienced drivers. Even starting in front and keeping your car straight and under control is fine cause we can get by a slower car that is stable just fine. I am tired of rookies bashing me out and causing accidents and blaming someone else. A ll they really need is for someone to tell them to straighten out. They almost never think their driving is a problem. Some tell me how fast they are and then I lap em twice.
Go to Spartan website and look at pic 0601-437 and tell me if you think I was in far enough to make it stick. This pic was taken a second before the 2 outside cars crashed out. I was told I was not in far enough and caused it but like I said "how far do I need to be in before you give me a lane".I was not sent to the rear but was called names and tracked down in the pits to be verbally insulted by the middle driver. Things like that are why I complain. Especially after being insulted and called names. Immediately after the photog got this pic the middle car turned left and accelerated right into the back of my front right tire with their left front tire and went airborn into the outside car. It was a claim I could not prove and forgot about until this pic was pointed out to me. How lucky was that,now I will get a copy and mail it ot them. Dirty driving old m-fer that I am I will be glad to do it. If I need 50 bucks so bad they will give it to me not to race so hard in a heat. I will take the fifty bucks as heats pay nada nickel. How much to skip the feature?
How much did that crash cost? Haven't see the person back since. Replacing parts and winning no prize money hurts most people as racing out of your pocket is EXPENSIVE.
I help everyone who asks me. I give the same advice as I got years ago. Slow down to go fast.....
I don't take any of these discussions to the track with me. That is another world and computer jabber is left on the screen in its own little world......

I can agree with Dick ya know ya get guy's that are used to running FS cars and then they get a mod and they race it the same way and it just wrecks cars. The smart guy's like Big Joe, Larry P. etc. they where clean drivers in the FS and are now real good in the mods. This crap cost's to much when you wreck or blow up plus the time during the week, it is like a second full time job.
Heck it is more fun for me to take and spend the weekend on the boat and spend a couple of hundred dollars on fuel and bait and then park it back at the marina till next weekend, no strees, no fighting, no cheating I should have done this years ago.
duelly PS good luck to all of you racer's and don't get hurt having fun.