The USPRO Cup Series will race after all in 2007 with two shows slated for the famed Winchester (IN) Speedway.
By ASA Late Model Series

Lexington, Michigan (08/24/2007): The ASA Late Model Series Presented by GM Performance Parts continues to be widely known throughout North America as the fastest growing short track series in the country. From the days in 2003 as a regional touring series in the home state of Michigan as well as Indiana and Ohio, the ASALMS has expanded all over the United States and even into Canada as the Template Body/Crate Engine concept has swept the nation.

The return of the USPRO Cup Series was tarnished by a visit from Mother Nature on August 18, 2007 at the Owosso (MI) Speedway in what was to be the running of the Sneak Peek 35. Originally the return of the USPRO Cup Series would have to wait until the 2008 season.

Along the way however, a buzz of excitement was running through the short track racing circles as CRA Super Supers Promoters, R.J. Scott and Glenn Luckett called on ASALMS Co-Founders/Presidents, Ron and Sandy Varney and inquired about bringing on the USPRO Cup Series for two events! A deal was reached and the USPRO Cup Series will indeed race after all in 2007 and on two separate occasions at one of the most famous high-banked tracks in the United States.

The USPRO Cup Series will make two trips to the famed high-banks of the Winchester (IN) Speedway in Winchester, Indiana with the first show set for Sunday and Monday September 2-3, 2007 as part of the World Stock Car Racing Festival! Then the USPRO Cup Series returns to the famous high-banks on Friday and Saturday October 12-13, 2007 as part of the Winchester 400 weekend!

As part of the World Stock Car Racing Festival on Sunday and Monday September 2-3, 2007 the USPRO Cup Series will run the Winchester /Sneak Peek 50 Part One with Practice and Qualifying on Sunday and the 50-lap Feature set to go on Monday afternoon.

As an added bonus, any ASALMS Northern Division driver who makes the trip from the Hawkeye Downs (IA) Speedway the night before after running in the Hawkeye 100 Presented by Coors Light and Cassill Motors and then wins the Winchester/Sneak Peek 50 Part One, will receive a $250.00 bonus from the CRA Super Series for making the trip.

The second appearance will be during the prestigious Winchester 400 weekend for the CRA Super Series as the USPRO Cup Series will run the Winchester/Sneak Peek 50 Part Two on Saturday October 13, 2007. The Winchester 400 will headline the weekend on Sunday October 14, 2007.

There is no Entry Form for both shows in Winchester, Indiana for the USPRO Cup Series, however there will be a $50.00 entry fee the day of the race. Also the ASALMS asks that any team that plans on racing in these events to please call the ASALMS Home Offices in Lexington, Michigan to indicate if your team will be attending for Promotional purposes.

For both Winchester events, Bollhoff Rivnut Super Pro Series Rules will apply with ASALMS procedures in affect! Any and all ASALMS Type Cars such as the Bollhoff Rivnut Super Pro Series, MAARA Series, and any team within the entire United States and Canada with the Template Body/Crate Engine package, are all invited for both shows at the Winchester Speedway.

For both shows in Eastern Indiana, the USPRO Cup Series teams will be racing on the ASALMS Northern/Southern Division tires. USPRO Cup teams that come to Winchester will be allowed to practice on any tire that they bring with them, just like it was at Owosso, however for this event, it is a Two (2) tire event and teams must purchase a minimum of Two (2) tires to Qualify and Race on.

For more information about the World Stock Car Racing Festival at the Winchester Speedway on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday September 1-2-3, 2007, go to the CRA Super Series website at: http://www.craracing.net and for Winchester Speedway information, go to their website at: http://www.winchesterspeedway.com

As for the 2008 season for the USPRO Cup Series, details are being worked out and will be released in conjunction with the 2008 ASALMS schedules, which will be available by Late-October 2007. The ASALMS is looking at reduced Features with a minimum of 50-lap Features and the series will reinstate the Two (2) Tire rule throughout the 2008 campaign. Payouts and purses will also be determined in conjunction with the release of the 2008 schedules.

In addition, the USPRO Cup Series will always be a support division to the ASALMS Challenge and Northern Divisions in races conducted in the series home state of Michigan as well as the surrounding states of Indiana and Ohio. The USPRO Cup Series will not have a stand alone event. A 6-8 race schedule is being planned with a separate points standings and the crowning of a 2008 USPRO Cup Series Champion and Rookie of the Year at the conclusion of the season.

In addition and for future seasons, drivers who make the transition from the USPRO Cup Series to one of the three ASALMS divisions will be eligible for the respective Rookie of the Year titles providing they fall under the guidelines set forth for Rookie Eligibility under the ASALMS.

As the story goes and everyone associated with the stock car racing industry knows; The USPRO Cup Series was born in February 2002 at the Holiday Inn South Convention Center in Lansing, Michigan by Current ASALMS Co-Founders/Presidents Ron and Sandy Varney along-with Race Director and former NASCAR Winston Cup Series Public Relations guru, Chris Throgmartin.

The USPRO Cup Series took shape using input from racers by designing rules centered on a mission statement. The rules were molded from this input with stability, reliability; cost effectiveness and performance all cornerstones of the development behind USPRO Cup Series. GM Performance Parts, Howe Racing Enterprises and Port City Racing were among the racing industry companies contacted during the formation of the series.

From those original ideas the series was born and was taken public after feasibility study conducted by Stone Vos of Bristol, Tennessee proved that grassroots racing had a need for a financially viable and cost-controlled traveling series.

At this meeting in the Capital City of Michigan, selected drivers were invited to discuss the rules that had been formulated to date and to design a USPRO Cup Series race car. Super Late Model Champions from all over the state of Michigan such as Tim Felver, Mark Kortz and Phil Massuch, as well as drivers from Factory Stocks to Limited Late Models to Modified drivers attended the "invitation only " meeting.

No manufacturers or promoters were invited to alleviate any conflict of interests in the rules making process. USPRO Cup wanted the rules to be designed by racers, not outside interests. Some rules were changed in order to achieve all the objectives of the drivers.

During the summer of 2002, several shootout races were held throughout Michigan and Northern Indiana. These races provided USPRO Cup with a platform to race, test and examine each component as well as the engine packages available from Ford and GM. Top super late model drivers including Butch Miller, Fred Campbell, Dave Sensiba, Mark Kortz and Jeff Bozell tested both the Ford and GM engines.

The rapid growth of this series is phenomenal. In 2003 for the inaugural event of the USPRO Racing Series at the Thunder Valley (MI) Speedway (Now M-40 Speedway) which is now known as ASALMS, had 12 cars show to compete. The series although small, started the wheels in motion for a change that would sweep the short track-racing world throughout the Midwest and beyond.

The Crate Motor, Template Body package with cost limitations on parts was appealing to not only drivers, but to race tracks throughout the country. Late in 2003, USPRO owners were approached by the now defunct American Speed Association to form a partnership and launch a series that would forever change the history of short track racing; The ASA Late Model Series and the rest as they say is history!

2004 and 2005 were highly successful and resulted in the modification of the ASALMS to what is now the ASALMS Challenge Division in 2006, while that same season, the ASALMS Northern and Southern Divisions were formed and continue on in 2007 and beyond. Beginning in 2008, there will be four divisions under the ASALMS banner with the return of the USPRO Cup Series.

For more information about the on going 2007 seasons within all three divisions of the ASALMS, as well as the fast approaching 2008 campaigns, you can call the ASALMS home offices during normal business hours Monday through Friday 9:00am-5:00pm (EST) at: 1 (800) 385-2503.

You can also log onto any of the three websites for more information concerning the 2007 season. For the Challenge Division, go to: http://www.asalatemodels.com For the Northern Division, log in at: http://www.asalatemodelsnorth.com and finally for the Southern Division click on: http://www.asalatemodelssouth.com

I will be making the trip down with my truck for the sept 2nd and 3rd weekend because the Shorttracktrucks.com Challenge Series will also be running then

No point in assuming that these dates are additional to, and not in conflict with SuperPRO since the idea is to give the drivers more opportunitities to race.

Guess that the concern for further fragmentation of SLM racing in the area is still fully without merit too......

Sorry, but I get tired of being right and could not let it go.

Sounds like Winchester dropped both SuperPro races

Bruce
That is exactly what happened!

Gunner
What is it exactly that you're right about? Not sure I understand your rambling!

The two Super Pro dates were dropped and the USPRO Cup Series was asked to take their place for both shows. End of story! No conspiracy theory, no back door shenanigans.

So Gunner I guess what i'm asking is that is there something else going on that we should know about or is this another theory about Super Late Model racing in this area??

I love how no one else can ever have an opinion....not taking sides

Excited to see a template car at winchester along with the cra template cars there...regardless super pro/us pro cup. Same thing anyway *(minus the american racer/hoosier difference)

Kyle
Actually there's more differences than you might think besides tires when it comes to the differences between the Super Pro Series and the ASA Late Model Series/USPRO Cup Series.

Especially at a place like Winchester Speedway, but you're right, it's going to be real exciting to even be at such a famed facility and seeing two top Super Late Model traveling series' at the same time. Plus the Michigan based Short Track Trucks.com Challenge Series will be there as well as about 4-5 other divisions.

Should be a great (And Long) weekend, especially with a few of us ASA Late Model Series Officials making the all night drive from Cedar Rapids, Iowa to Winchester, Indiana to handle all the USPRO Cup Series Tech, Procedures, etc.

Hopefully a few fans here in Michigan will come down on Monday Afternoon, races start at 1pm on Labor Day Monday!

What I was right about is the affect of USPRO on SuperPRO. I was concerned for the fate of SuperPRO when the ressuection of USPRO was announced. One of the possiblites I saw was USPRO being competittive to SuperPRO and further fragmenting SLM racing in the area. I suspected that USPRO needed the same racers that SuperPRO did, and would compete for them. You said:

"What we're (ASALMS/USPRO) trying to do is simply give the teams in this area with the Template Body/Crate Engine package, another option to pursue beginning with the 2008 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gunner let me ask you, WHY would we "go after" Super Pro? They're not in any way a conflict nor are they in competition for cars? If anything, the resurrection of the USPRO Cup Series will only HELP Super Pro!"

Now, suddenly, USPRO is replacing SuperPRO at events. I don't see how this gives the racer another opportunity to race, excpet if SuperPRO was backing out of those dates anyway, which we have not heard yet either.

When you asked your question of "WHY" you would "go after" SuperPRO, I chose to ignore it rather than pretend that you needed assistance understanding concepts of opportunity, market potential, market share, market position, organizational size, health and strength. ASALM has proven it's abilities in all areas of motorsports marketing and management.

What I didn't, and still do not understand, is the lack of openess regarding realizing the consequences of another, bigger kid comiing to ear from the same pie. I can not beleive that ASALM really thought that SuperPRO would succeed running a schedule complimentary to USPRO. You are recruiting the same racers, fans and tracks.

Beyond that, the growth of USPRO would have to come from enticing outlaw racers to go template & crate. This has the potential to be the last straw for outlaw racing the mid-Michigan as it further fragments SLM racing in the area. I am not saying that is a bad thing. There are reasons that outlaw is dying here, and euthanasia may the be right choice.

Please understand, I enjoy ASALM and I expect that USPRO will be sucsessful too. I just get frustrated with the "aw-sucks, we just wanna start another sanctioning body to give the boys another playtime, we don't mean nothin' by it" persona.

Yeah, I probably deserve to be harassed since I can be sarcastic, but c'mon, tell it like it is.

I would say that if you look at Super Pro you can answer your own question Gunner.

They have publicly said it is for sale and if it does not sell they said that they MIGHT shut it down anyways.

Also, their first race there they only had 11 cars, so maybe that has some affect on why this happened, Maybe Bill Lackey himself suggested to the Winchester folks that this would be best for all parties.

Just some food for thought I guess.

Gunner
If you were at the rained out event at Owosso, there were only 1 Full-Time Super Pro Car there (Points Leader, Tommy Cook), the rest were either Auto City Super Stocks or ASA Late Model Series Northern Division drivers who happened to bring a second car with them.

There's plenty of Template Body/Crate Engine cars in this area believe it or not, There are some that don't run Auto City or Super Pro who are now getting ready for the 2008 USPRO Cup Series season thanks to the announcement. If some of the Super Pro/Auto City cars migrate over to the USPRO Cup Series, then so be it!

All we are is another option for the fastest growing type of racing in the United States in a part of the country that is heavy on Outlaw Bodied/Unlimited Horsepower/Unlimited Spending Super Late Models.

We didn't ask for the two Winchester dates, they were offered to us while we were in the car heading to the Milwaukee Mile for this past weekends' races.

With our rain out at Owosso and not being able to schedule another USPRO Cup date, we gladly accepted the invitation from the CRA Super Series and the Winchester Speedway to be a part of this coming weekend's World Stock Car Racing Festival and later in October during the Winchester 400 weekend.

While some might think that the Super Pro Series was left out in the cold. I guess you'd have to ask the Super Pro Series about why they aren't going back to Winchester. We (The ASA Late Model Series/USPRO Cup Series) don't know, or event ask, as to why the Super Pro races were cancelled. We accepted the dates and went on to have a great show in Milwaukeee during Governors Cup Weekend.

Nevertheless, hope to see some Michigan fans come down to Winchester to see some great racing to end the Labor Day Holiday weekend.

My guess would be that there were too few cars comitted to coming for the SuperPRO events, and, yes, it was decided to not have them. If that is the case, it is fortunate that USPRO can step in to fill the void. You gotta know that USPRO is not going to funciton at the same levels SuperPRO has. They are gonna need more cars, and they will get them.

The CRA Super Series, who will be running the entire weekend, and the Winchester Speedway know and understand that with only 10 days to promote this event on our end, we may only have between 12-15 cars, not much more than what Super Pro brought in a few weeks ago and about the same as we had at Owosso (13).

The race in October however should see a full 24-26 car field and with the ASALMS Challenge and Northern Divisions Points chases having been decided before hand, we expect a strong field of USPRO Cup Series cars at Winchester during the CRA Super Series' Winchester 400 weekend.

Now dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of the ASA Late Model Series....as a Fan.

I came to a harsh reality last saturday at the ASA Owosso show. The reality I came too was I can never run and be competitive with these guys....its not because of talent/skill/equipment .... it s the lack of sponsorship and funding. I can not afford the tire bill at these races, nor a back up car in case I wreck the week before....In reality I do not see the cost savings of running an ASA late model vs. running a super late model. Same Chassis, same chassis pieces, same rear ends.....more expensive bodies, cheaper initial motor purchases but add in a rebuild and it is darn close.

Now I am not here to start the big debate, because I have converted myself to a template/soon to be crate car.....I am just still depressed that I do not have the same financial backing as Chad Finley, Alex Kennedy, Charlie Menard, and the other names I read on the side of the haulers as they were towering over me.....sorry for ranting.

Wood, how was milwaukee? Was the racing good? would have loved to go...

Kyle
Sponsorship plays a big role in the ASA Late Model Series, I won't deny that, it takes money to travel to and from each event on our schedules. It takes mney to travel anywhere anymore, let alone in the ASA Late Model Series, but the overall cost of traveling is FAR less than it is running an Outlaw Car, even for a couple of shows, with an unlimited dollar motor.

One outlaw team I talked to earlier this year stated that for the cost of his motor alone, he'd be able to run the full Schedules in BOTH the ASALMS Challenge and Northern Divisions! (22 races).

ll those extra tens of thousands of dollars are paying for what?

Peter Cozzolino, who set fast time at Owosso in the ASALMS North Race there that got rained out, would've Qualified 4th in the last Super Late Model Triple Crown race at Owosso with his little $5,500 Crate Engine! By the way, Cozzolino is running both Challenge and Northern Division schedules as is Charlie Menard and Jesse Smith.

The Jani-King 150 at Milwaukee was very good, Robbie Pyle won over Sean Murphy and Travis Dassow. We had 33 cars and all of them started. Brian Campbell was the highest finishing Michigan based driver. He Qualied 6th and after the inversion of a Seven (7) started on the outside of the front row. He finished 5th.

Wood let me now correct you.


You are 1000% wrong.


The cost of running my super late model team is not even close to what it costs to field an ASA challenge or North team.


I race one day events with the most drive time of 2 hours from my home and only spend 480 per race on tires.



The travel that goes into the ASA series plus the cost of the series is TREMENDOUS. I wont even go into the amount.

Trust me I know how much it costs, my family owns the series.


Now, the whole point of bringing back the USPRO series is so that they can still fullfill their first goal which was a cost effective race series when they couldnt get the local tracks to book shows.

So the ASA series has now become a PREMIER (see that Ron) traveling series that takes alot of money to run, I could never afford this series personally and I run just fine in supers.


As far as the owosso race goes, the track was definately off Sat, there was water seeping through the track in turn 1 bad and slowed the times, fast time was a 14.96 I went a 15.21 which was faster than Causeayellows fast time and I was 17th

So your info was a little off, also there was 3 tenths between 1st and 23rd they times were tough to say the least.


Tires are a huge expense in ASA but the #1 expense is travel and that is through the roof period.

Claude I agree with you....another SILLY expense is...I can not even bring my team to a ASA race without having my crew in THE SAME race shirts with patches/embroidery on them....plus a spotters license, plus at least three sets of 489.00 hoosier "ASA" TIRES....I believe we will stick to the uspro schedule, that is if we don't have to travel to Iowa, Milwaukee, Bristol, etc.

Claude
The Triple Crown race I was referring too was the second event on July 28th that was won by Brian Campbell.

Some people can afford to travel, others can't. Especially in this day and age. But it IS a fact that if you want to advance farther in the world of Stock Car Racing, or any other forms of racing for that matter, you need to get out of racing at home all the time. That means traveling!

Traveling costs money, no doubt about it, i'll give you that. But the money MOST (Not all, like yourself) Outlaw Super Late Model drivers spend on their engines alone would allow them to run a full season in ASALMS or any other traveling series for that matter and STILL have plenty of $$$ left over.

Every driver spends the money to buy tires. Some tracks make you buy at least Four (4) others don't have a spending limit. Some teams buy more than others, especially in Supers, it happens too in ASALMS. That expense is a wash!

Kyle
You don't need crew shirts with expensive lettering on them, some teams choose to get the nice crew shirts, others simply have matching t-shirts, it's there perogative, But by no means is it mandatory that teams HAVE to have the expensive embroidery on them.

The USPRO Cup Series in 2008 will be a support division to the ASALMS Challenge and Northern Divisions in our events in Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio. So about a 6-8 race schedule is what you can plan on in 2008 should you decide to come join us!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No matter how I explain things and try and defend the Template Body/Crate Engine concept in a region where Outlaw Cars/Unlimited Spending is the way of life, someone will ALWAYS have a negative thing to say and try to defend why they "have" to spend $100,000 to be competitive in a dying division!

If people would just stop for a second, take a step back, and realize the reality of short track racing, especially in the state of Michigan, I think they would realize an entirely new point of view and approach to racing in general.

Template Body/Crate Engine racing isn't for everyone. Some teams "need" to out dollar everyone in the field to win and that's there choice.

Others like the excitement of competition and being on an even playing field where driver ability and set-ups are what win races and not how much money you spent on your motor and being defeated before you even unload your car!

Until Thursday of last week, we were all set to have the SuperPro Series at Winchester...even after the weak first showing for them a few weeks ago. Thursday morning we received an email from Bill Lackey about his lack of confidence in providing a good show for us, and suggested they not be at the remaining scheduled events. We contacted Ron Varney immediately and discussed the possibility of USPRO replacing them, and that is exactly what happened. Its pretty simple and straight forward.

Thank You R.J., looking forward to working with you guys and coming to Winchester Speedway.

Again Hollywood I do not know where you get your figures from.


You are a good announcer, you are not a car owner/ driver/ nor mechanic.

Obviously you have no idea what type of money it costs to run a super late model.

My brand new engine which is an 18* compression motor all brand new, dynoed and ready to run was 18k it makes 725 HP and is a top notch motor.


If I were to buy a new engine complete from say Performance Tech it would be around 25k so that being said I do not know where you are coming up with 100k to run and entire super schedule.



As far as the ASA series goes, I do know that the past 2 champions of the ASA series did spend in excess of 1 MILLION dollars per season to win championships.


So that being said, I guess that will sum up how affodable CRATE motor racing can be.

in the june 2007 issue of stock car racing they had a comparison of crate and built motors

1 Million Dollars??? Wow, I don't know where you got that, but............Wow!

Not every Outlaw Super team goes out and gets the $60-80,000 engines. You do just fine with your stuff at your prices, but there are plenty of others who spend FAR more on unlimited motors and that's a fact!

Sure some teams can get away with spending less and do well thanks to their driving ability. (You're a perfect example of that) but whether you like it or not, there are those other Outlaw Super teams that spend ungodly amounts of money just on their motor programs and they could easily spend FAR less money, have money left over for other things, and still be competitive in something other than Outlaw Bodied Super Late Models and probably have ALOT more fun doing so.

If you dont believe me about the money that is fine. I have Stephen Leichts phone number in my phone and I know exactly what the contract with WalTom entailed.


That is the number.


Can you name me 1 just one engine builder that charges 60 -80k for an outlaw super engine?


Hutter racing engines is the best in the business and if you were lucky enough to get one of his engines the highest I have seen anyone pay him was 47k


these are the facts, Charlie Menard has a budget for ASA that is 1 million dollars.

Obviously this is the high endof the spectrum but if you want to race with those boys thats the deal, also I can tell you all the teams have multiple engines and they all have them gone through before they ever see the race track, so that being said, how much is a cate motor?


Crate motor complete, 8500 cost for rebuild before its raced and dyno time, 2500 so you know have 11000 in just one crate motor.

Wow...............Ok Claude, you have your figures and your "facts" you can defend them all you want. If that's what you truly believe, then you stay doing what your doing.

How about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that! You have your beliefs and I have mine. We'll see how things work out for each of our divisions and then maybe we can rehash over the real facts and figures and just wait and see how everything turns out.

The writing is on the wall for Outlaw Super Late Models....It's only a matter of time my friend....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original subject of this thread is to promote the World Stock Car Festival this weekend at the Winchester (IN) Speedway in Winchester, Indiana on Sunday and Monday September 2-3, 2007 There is an optional Practice Day on Saturday September 1st.

The ASA Late Model Series Northern Division is at the Hawkeye Downs (IA) Speedway in Cedar Rapids, Iowa for the Hawkeye 100 Presented by Coors Light and Cassill Motors. After the show in Iowa, several ASALMS Officials will be making the late night haul to Winchester, Indiana.

In addition to the USPRO Cup Series, the CRA Super Series are the headliners with the McGunegill Engine Performance 100. Plus the American Modifieds Series, Short Track Trucks.com Challenge Series, CRA Sportsmen, CRA Street Stocks, and CRA Compacts.

For more information about the Winchester Labor Day Weekend, go to either: http://www.craracing.net or http://www.winchesterspeedway.com

No Wood I want people to know the truth.

I asked you to name 1 engine builder that charges 60-80K for 1 super motor. So please.


Also I left out the Zaxby's team and their budget for ASA, it is 900K for a season.


Let me aks you, why do you think I am not correct with these numbers?


I am not guessing in anyway shape or form.


The purpose of this thread is the USPRO series, that series should not have the amount of travel that ASA does, it wont have the teams that have those types of budgets running it either, thats what the ASA series is for.


Again, the ASA series has 3 divisions, the ASA North, South and the Challenge series.


The North and South are more affordable but are still a TRAVELING touring series, they are expensive.

The Challenge series is a National touring series that basically replaced the old ASA only with more class and dignity than what the old ASA was left with.


USPRO is going to be for your local racer that does not have to travel anywhere near as far.


I can tell you the teams that have the biggest budgets in Supers, Scott Hantz, Boyne Machine and HS Die team, I promise you that not one of those teams are anywhere near the Budget of the 3 top ASA teams, I would bet my entire house that not one of those teams spend even 250K to go super late model racing in a season.

1. I'm not going to name drop anyones business.

2. Furthermore, i'm not going to sit here and take time out of my work day to battle back and fourth with you, i've already wasted enough time and energy today as it is in doing so!

3. Good luck the rest of the 2007 season and beyond.

4. I don't know how, when, why, what, who you came up with your figures from, but hey if that's what you believe, good luck man....I'm not going to fight a battle that no one will win. So I gracefully bow out of this arguement....

Call it Chicken Sh!@ call it what you will....I don't have the time or energy....One day you'll see the division you're currently running in, go the way of the Super Modifieds! That my friend, is the "Truth"....


As was stated previously; The original subject of this thread is to promote the World Stock Car Festival this weekend at the Winchester (IN) Speedway in Winchester, Indiana on Sunday and Monday September 2-3, 2007 There is an optional Practice Day on Saturday September 1st.

The ASA Late Model Series Northern Division is at the Hawkeye Downs (IA) Speedway in Cedar Rapids, Iowa for the Hawkeye 100 Presented by Coors Light and Cassill Motors. After the show in Iowa, several ASALMS Officials will be making the late night haul to Winchester, Indiana.

In addition to the USPRO Cup Series, the CRA Super Series are the headliners with the McGunegill Engine Performance 100. Plus the American Modifieds Series, Short Track Trucks.com Challenge Series, CRA Sportsmen, CRA Street Stocks, and CRA Compacts.

For more information about the Winchester Labor Day Weekend, go to either: http://www.craracing.net or http://www.winchesterspeedway.com

SUPER LATE MODEL 9:1 ENGINES
The Hamner 9:1 Engine has been a very successful engine combination for many seasons. This engine has won about every major event and championship in Super Late Model Racing across the country. It has won the Snowball Derby on numerous occasions, the All-American 400, World Classic, Rattler and the Governor’s Cup, just to name a few. With the track record this engine has, it is the obvious choice for the “Elite” in Super Late Model Racing.



23* 9:1 $32,500


18* 9:1 $33,500


there is a possibilty of $1900 in upgrades like alternators with pulleys and roller cam brgs and what not, this is just one example from Jeff Hamner engines which supply some of the very best in the south for engines.


Dont worry about trying to argue your point anymore its ok, like I said, I do not want anyone to be mislead about what ASA racing and super latemodel racing are really all about.

USPRO is a great thing for the people that are near our area that deserve to race for more than 500-800 to win with cars they have way more invested in.


As far as enjoying racing with ASA over superlates, you have no clue as to what your saying, you have never driven either, I have raced both. I remember racing my limited and it had the same HP as ASA cars and the super is in a league of its own.




Good luck to you for the rest of the year as well, say hello to all my family while you are there.

1 million!!!!!!!!!!!! these guys must piss alot of money away, we run a Busch East series car out of RWI for 750k this year thats 5 cars 3 motors 6 full time saleries ( not cheap ones either) a full blown Busch hauler with all the trimings, hotels, plane fare, wrecks, tires everything, there are alot of competeive Busch East teams that run the whole year for 500k so 1 million for a late model team is ridiculous, unless they are traveling to Europe and back every week

Gentlemen,

I'm going to weigh in on this one because we were there from the beginning. We ran the first USPRO year when gas was $2 a gallon and we spent the same that it cost us to run a full season at AC. We ran the full ASA tour the following year and it cost me $44K and we were a lower level team. The only luxury we had was a backup motor. The USPRO or SUPERPRO series is the way to do it as long as it stays close to home.
Claude, you must admit that there are Superlatemodel teams that spend a extreme amount of money. Wood ,you must admit that some of the ASA teams spend a extreme amount also. Racing is very expensive and both of you are correct!


Greg

I think the cost and technical factor discussion should at least be moved to a separate discussion.

Again, I only mentioned the team that won the championship the last 2 years plus, the ZAXBY'S team and the MENARD'S team.


Obviously these people had major money to burn and do. I know that the Menards team has 6 full time guys there and they fly the guys to all the races.

I think that if you want to run in the top 8 of that series for the full deal you would realistically need to spend $250K to do it right.



Bruce you should see these operations, they have full cup style semis multiple cars and motors on site these teams buy tires just for Mach qualifying runs. On Radial tires that is over $700 just for that set!!!!


As far as supers go, the teams that I know that spend the biggest money would be Dick Poe's team with Scott Hantz, The Boyne machine team. Those are big hitters. And Tim Steele's team.


The Port City house cars obviously have the best but at cost for stuff so they actually spend less for the most part.


If you were to buy a compression motor from say AP engines in Windsor I know that complete ready to go engine is 35K and Baker engines is anywhere from 25K to 35K depending on what you choose.

So for a top flight crate team buying 2 motors and getting them race ready they will have about 11K in each motor so thats 22K not a very big savings.

Just out of banal curiousity,

isn't the crate motor around 5.5 to 6k?

good carb for them around 1k,?

ancillary external parts around 1.5k at the absolute high end tops?

so a top flight crate motor should be at tops 8k?

Or am I misconstruing the concept of crate motor racing?

have a good day,

schinde

This is all true schinde....but the "good teams" have their motor blueprinted and freshened before they even put the motor in the car....which can run from 3500 to 5k just in a "rebuild"...pushing the motor to close to 13,000 or more based on which motor you have...fords are typically more money

Kyle
I wasn't going to respond anymore to this thread, but after your last post, I have too.

Any team that "blueprints" a motor won't be racing in the ASA Late Model Series period!
Two teams are banned for life for doing that very thing!

The ASA Late Model Series Northern Division that was at Dixie and Owosso run on the Hoosier Bias-Ply tires stamped ASALMS, those are NOT radials. Radials are run in the Challenge Division only where the features are typically 150-200 laps in length.

Please don't post things on here about a series or a concept you know very little about!


(I already know the bashing will start, so moderators can close this portion of the thread at any time and keep the part of this thread that is strictly about the USPRO Cup Series race this weekend and in October at Winchester Speedway)

Note: This very thing is the reason why Message Boards are just a bad idea!!!! People who post things about stuff they have no clue about and the when the right people set them straight, they get bashed for it!

Wow Wood, the pot calling the kettle black...

Whether you like to believe it or not, I know more than you do...THAT IS FACT.

I will apologize for being mistaken on saying "blueprinted"...but the truth of the matter is, I bet there is not ONE SINGLE ASA car that runs a motor out of the "crate"....Any team that wants to be competitive NEEDS to have the motor "rebuilt"...aka torn apart and gone through...thus creating more horsepower....but im sure you knew that because you are gods gift to A.S.A.

If I hit the lotto this weekend, Wood I swear to you I will buy you a race car, so you can play with the big boys and have some credibility.

Holywood I think you are misunderstanding here.



Blueprinting a motor is perfectly legal, all that is done is a hone job on the cylinders and new rings to seal the thing up better.

What was caught illegally this year was totally different.


The big one was totally different parts internally with illegal sealed bolts and the other was a camshaft issue.


Blueprinting is what the teams do with a new motor, 80% of the teams have it done at an authorized ASA engine builder

I rest my case!

You are right wood...you rest your case, you shouldn't make comments you do not know about....Have a good day, hopefully I hit the lotto.

So Kyle, you ready to do all that Wood does for the ASALM??? You know more than he does??? Really??? So start naming every driver and their hometowns from memory. I like you just fine Kyle, but those statements up there are just WRONG!!!

Matt gives this club tons of information about a series that a lot of us love here. You want to defame his character, then do it in a PM, or personally, face to face. You could of said what you did up there in a more professional manner, and not resort to that kind of BS. I know from past post that you don't like his wife, or him evidently either. But either way, we all don't need to read about it.

No Ed, you are right...I do appologize. This is why I should not try to squeeze this into my work time....I get frustrated...ESPECIALLY when Matt tells me that I dont know what I am talking about. Don't get me wrong, he knows where more than I do on drivers, tracks, the overall series in general...but when it comes down to the cars I would bet my next two pay checks that I know more about them then he does...but that is not the point, and I should not have made that statement.

As far as his wife and him go, I have no problem with them, they always seem to jump on me, but I have given up on ammending this situation.

But like I mentioned, I dont appreciate the fact that "i know very little about the series", yet when I was replying to someone else with the CORRECT information, he tried to correct me with the WRONG information...urgh, regardless I appologize but on the other hand I am still right.

Holywood so you can understand the rules of the ASA Late model series I took the time to print off the engine rules for you. In your defense I am assuming you did not know what blueprinting a motor meant.




Section II E Engine Specifications and Requirements
All engines used for ASA LMS competition must be sealed by the manufacturer and/or a Certified Engine Rebuilder and must remain in the “as shipped” condition. The Series uses a double redundant sealing system which must be displayed at all times. All engines, with or without this sealing process are subject to testing and or confiscation at any time during a sanctioned event. Competitor’s refusing confiscation, impounding and/or replacement, will be disqualified from the event, and all future events until engine issue has been resolved. Disqualification includes forfeiture of all monies, points and contingencies earned for that event. Teams may be subjected to additional fines, penalties and/or points
loss, based on inspection of the engine. Teams fined or penalized for engine infractions are not eligible for competition until all fines and/or penalties have been fulfilled or paid.
a. Engine/Body combinations must be match manufacturers nameplate
b. Engine mounts must be reinforced steel or aluminum.
c. Aftermarket SFI Approved engine dampers are permitted. There can be no moving parts or viscous style damper permitted.
d. Oil coolers are recommended
e. Use of or installation of an open or closed loop vacuum system, to evacuate air from the engine is a speed enhancing alteration and will subject the team(s) to all penalties as described in Section II Sealed Component Violation

E.1 Approved Engines

A. GM part number 88958604 with upgraded 1.6 GM Rockers, P/N: 12370839 only!
B. Ford part number M-6007-D347R2
C. Ford part number M-6010-BOSS302 (Available late 2007 season)
D. Dodge part number P5007958
E. McGunegill Ford part number ASA 425 LM
F. Stanton Dodge part number ASALMS75360

CP Racer/Kmaki18

Let me get this straight. If I wanted to be competitive in ASALM, US Pro, Super Pro, or even Pro Late Models at Auto City I would need to buy a new crate motor then have it immediately rebuit (blueprinted) for a total cost of around 11K? Does that price include any dyno testing or would that be extra?

I thought crate motors/series were supposed to make racing more affordable? I guess racing will never change...the team with the most money wins.

Brian

Brian like I said, in order to have the "best" motor at any particular track you have to have it rebuilt...whether you do it right away or after a season or two, it is your prerogative....but I guarantee you when you get it back, you will notice a difference. In the rebuild charge, it does include dyno time *(i think, don't hold me to it)....

Auto city, you do not HAVE to do this, for example Wayne Howe has gone I believe 5 seasons, Norm Wilcox went a long time before he changed his motor...but like I said it definitely is a noticeable difference after it comes back in a new crate...no pun intended.

And yes this is the argument that we are currently having....in order to run A.S.A.LM it seemed to me that you A) have to have huge sponsorships B) have to have an extra car/extra MOTORS C) your primary and back up motors should have been to the motor doctor already D) Be ready to go through a lot of tires. This is not a bad thing it just unfortunate that not everyone can compete at this level. USPRO is a great series in theory, where the average guy can travel to a few different tracks and be competitive with the equipment that he/she may have for A LOT LESS MONEY Than the ASALM series.

Wood, I will be down at Winchester for the 400 weekend. I'm heading down on that Friday morning. Hope it is warmer then last year, don't know if it could get colder then it was. I already have my tickets. Hope there are a lot of cars. Last year every race was very good, including the outlaw race with only 10-12 cars.

Wow, what a thread. I agree Claude and Kyle have been right on the money. I respect Hollywood and what he has done for racing, but with that said, I do think that whatever he is doing at the time seems to be the greatest thing always. Maybe that is just representing his best interest. In any case it seems like he has had a vendetta about outlaw super late model racing for quite some time now. It seems as though he wants it to die. he always says "in ineviatable" any chance he gets lol.I think racing will always be racing and big money is always big money, crate racing or not. Crate racing is another type of racing, but it is also done at different levels. USPRO is Awesome and somewhat more affordable. ASA is quite the opposite (expensive). Just like we have factory stocks and Super late Models. Crate racing has all the same problems, I don't see where it solved alot of racing problems as Wood seems to think it has. I don't see anything bad about it either, but it is naive to think it is any better or more affordable, it is just another type of racing with different classes.

Ray

I'm ready to take golf back up. So who's more right in this discussion and how does it make racing better. Is this even the objective anymore?

Claude, I saw the ASA cars when they were at Iowa this year, in a companion race to Busch East, yes some of the teams are impresive but if the top teams spend over 500k I would be suprised, they are on par with most of the Busch east teams, but Gibbs, Hendrick, Ginn DEI and RWI are all in Busch East and none of them are spending 1 million a year on a team

Ok, let me restate what I already said earlier.


This is only certain teams that have that type of budget.

I clearly said that in MY OPINION, to run the series in the top 8 or so, to do it the right way it would be about 250K for an entire season.


Greg Whitney even said that the first year they traveled with ASA they spent around 44K

That was year #1 and way less travel and only a one car team with a very normal( to me)hauler and setup.

No full time employees, no big shop, no big time testing nor telemetry.


My figures for 250K are very realistic

1 more thing, I am NOT bashing ASA here, it is a PREMIER traveling series now that IS feeding Nascar teams with talent. So that being said, it is expected that the series is expensive and also you need the best technology available to the teams with that type of goal.



Just for the record, for me personally to run a full season in my Super late model and yes I have been a top 5 car, many times a 2nd place car this year, I do not spend anywhere near 44K

I think you could run it and be competetive on 250k as long as you dont have more than 1 full time employee, thats where the money adds up fast, im sure a top 5 ASA crew chief would make 50-75k plus expenses, I just got an offer to Crew Chief a super late/ ASA deal part time and its good money, im seriously considering it

I must say all of this has made for good reading. Some of it is true, some of it is B.S. and the rest is somewhere in between. I do want to point out one fact though that is totally wrong, you DO NOT have to have your motor redone to to compete, there is a team down south Brandon Johnson that won at New Smyrna and has a couple of seconds that did it all on an engine right out of the crate. I have personally tested motors before any rebuilds and right after a rebuild and it's about 10 hp, in my humble opinion it's not worth it, but hey I can't tell teams how to spend their money. Oh hell while I'm on a roll, while there are teams out there who spend ungodly amounts of money, how many races have they won? Menard (1) Zaxby's (0) unless you count Beau Solcum (1) Travis Dassow (2). The last season Jack Smith ran with us he finished in the top 5 in pionts and spent less than 30K to do it. Enough said, move on!