man I was in Ohio and noticed that the 305 asphalt sprint cars are real popular, how come you don't see them around here? was a cool class to watch...

The 305's are a great class at Sandusky and would love for them to be around here. I'm not sure theres much demand around here as Ohio and Indiana seem to be more open wheel oriented... would definately be cool though.

man if you think the asphalt 305's are good you should see how many they get at fremont and attica. they race both tracks and average 35-40 every night. you wanna here something even better though is they only pay 500 or 600 to win and 100 bucks to start and they still draw that many cars!! its actually amazing in this day and age that they can still get that many and they are also an excellent show.

All very good points. I think I've had a few threads about 305 sprints on this site. I think it would be a good solid class in MI. The pavement 305s have offset rules that keep a lot of purpose built pavement cars out, unless they run shorter front axles or standard dirt rear ends. I think that's solid logic, and I would probably go ahead and limit them to 88" frames with a max driveline length of 41". That would promote the use of modifying old dirt cars to run the pavement and it would keep the cost down. Most of the sandusky cars are just dirtcars with a coil front. 305 engine rules are pretty good, they keep the cost down, especially by allowing the scat cast crank that sells for a little over $200 and is a very very good piece. These would be great for our tracks around here because with only 400hp you really have to hustle them and stay in the gas, I've heard a lot of people say that the 305s are way better to watch at Toledo than the 410s or the super mods. (not as brutally fast, but dang exciting) If you were gonna do it around here, I would also take the wings off to make it more appealing to watch and let the fans see the drivers working in the cars.

It would be a political struggle right away though. Cause if its a tour, AVSS wouldn't be happy with the idea of a promoter paying a class $4000 purse in place of a $10000 purse (for example) and advertising sprint cars, when the average fan, or maybe even the moderately involved fan may not realize the difference. (MORE reason to take the wings off)

Get it going Ryan, I'll build one.

Competition is good in my opinion. Advertise them as non-winged sprint cars. Not sure what area you are referring to GH, but if you mean Flint and surrounding areas I am not sure how many people really like the open wheel classes like they do in other parts. I for one love the open wheels. Most people hate the push starting aspect. I think it would be a great class to start. Start small and increase as you go. Maybe and I am not smart when it comes to switching cars from dirt to pavement but have a series where you could run both. Anyways, someone should hit the lotto and start this class.

I agree that MI is not an easy place to start an open wheel class. Doesnt mean it cant be done. Even a NW 305 sprint car would be so fast and so much fun to drive that it wouldnt be hard to get people involved. They are also very affordable if done correctly.

I'll start buying lotto tickets.

I am located in Kansas and our 305 dirt series down here is spreading like wild fire its the most affordable sprint car series in the Nation, i think a series up there would be great i would even consider coming up and help support it This series bottom line is affordable open wheel racing... period. We have got to keep the costs down on this class to insure it's growth Its phenomenal growth is due to the affordability to not only the racers, but to track owners and promoters, and has become a win-win situation for everyone…including the fans
I look forward to speaking with any of you in the near future and the possibilities of having Chuck Kirch Motorsports as a part of a 305 Michigan short track fastest growing Sprint Car Series. In closing, if you have any questions or want more information please feel free to contact me at anytime via e-mail

Thank You, God Bless,
Respectfully Chuck Kirch
Chuck_Kirch_Motorsports@Yahoo.com

Here on the west side.........people seem to love sprints and super mods. We have AVSS 2x a year and ISMA at least once a year, plus Gavin's beloved Wolverine midgets made an appearance or 2 this year at Berlin. I'd love to see a 305 sprint car series (w/o wings as Gavin suggests) here in Michigan. I don't know if I'd ever drive one but I'd sure as hell go watch them! Get er' done boys. All you young, smart gents should be planning this thing.

we try to set the race schedule about 50/50 between non wing & wing shows

We can not enforce the simlple rules here and all those rules are not workable. Imagine puling your heads off every nigh.
No way. Fine for TALKING about.

you pull 1 head $10.00 gaskets whats the big deal? i have not seen anyone Racing(Racers/Owners) complain about tech in all races i have attended not 1 and dont understand why the negative critizism....this series works everywhere it has started and is getting really popular, or maybe you just dont want or like it ? but i admire your opinion everyone has there own and thats why i posted, to get opinions and interest

I will tell you this in one series we had 24 races with 19 dif winners no one dominated, it was tight close side by side back and forth good ol grass roots racing and the Track Owners,Promotors, Racers and exspecially the Fans.........Loved it!
averages 30-50 cars each event
....And in 2008 that series alone has increased to 40 races....with more coming onboard for the 2008 season

It pays $400 to win $150 to start feature

We here in Michigan tend to be provincial because we are peninsular state that is surrounded by water on 3 sides,,,this makes us isolated in a way from the rest of the racers. We do not get many traveling racers from other states because of being a peninsular state. Where as OHIO is the cross roads of the USA, they get lots of out of state visitors. Therefore, Ohio tracks and racers are influenced by the racers and tracks in Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Pennsylvania that come to race in Ohio. also fans go from state to state to watch races.

IT has been a tradition here in Michigan for decades that we do not tear down engines,,,engine inspections are limited to what can be done visually, pumping, and using a whistler.

Because we tend to be provincial, and isolated, and do not have many travelers,,, tracks know that if they resorted to tearing down engines often, most Michigan racers would just go to another Michigan track that does not tear down engines in protest...

Also there is a shortage of willing technical people who are qualified to be a tech inspector.

this is why here in Michigan, severely restricted exhaust systems rules work, and rules that require tearing down the engine do not.

this is just my opinion,,,arnold.

It seems like a borescope would make it so that those rules could be easily enforced, at least for the cars with a hilborn injection. Just mandate plugs in the side of the oil pan (already done for most rules), and another plug in the valley plate of the injection. You can then see the intake ports with the borescope down the injection, you can check for roller lifters with the valley plate plug, and you can check for illegal rods and lightweight cranks with the plug in the side of the oil pan, look through the spark plug hole for domed pistons. Granted a borescope isn't terribly cheap, but it would be way easier than pulling heads. ASCS uses some simple tools to check the injection and the heads. I'm not sure if a similar tool could be used for the pistons, but a compression gauge would probably help make the decision to tear down or not.

I agree with Dick's skepticism, and for the most part I agree, because it is difficult to get good teching, for the reasons that Trick mentions.

Rob is also right, the Wolverine Outlaw Midgets are a great group to race with, they do a hell of a job all the way around, and the cars are an absolute blast to drive. I wish I had the resources to get one together for next season to get some pavement racing in. WOMS is the best group I have run with, and the rules are such that teching is pretty straight forward.

what ever rules you come up with is your decision,Remember you can never go back, but you can always move ahead if you do not have a tech with a basis of the rules i posted you will then be defeating the purpose of a low budget 305 series and like Knoxville 305 rules started out like those i posted, They was not inforced so therefor they now have upwards of $25,000 305 engines in there series(whats the point). Our rules are simple, set in stone for 5-10 yrs if you want to race our series with our rules welcome aboard, If not there are other series to welcome you also at a much increased cost. they said the same thing when we started this series it wont work no one will race you wont get cars,tracks etc. We stuck to our rules and the plan we had intended,Sure we struggled at first but now ,,lol we are proving all doubters Wrong.
While our Series numbers are increasing with Phenomenal growth not only with Car count,The track count is on an overwhelming growth also, So much the series will split into 3 to 4 regions for the 2008 season.as for theres (Other 305 Series) are declining rapidly in both car count and tracks.
I for one would come up and help support a 305 series or help in anyway i am able, not saying i would tow all the way up there but certainly would be a driver,consider director,represenative, advisor, marketing.

Hello, we run 2 305's at Sandusky Speedway and the traveling series called Buckeye Super Sprints. It is diffidently a great divison to run. We will be up in Michigan August 9th at Flat Rock Speedway. I have never been there, so what is the size and banking of the track? As for the type of cars to run in a 305 class, there is a lot of dirt chassis and asphalt chassis running with us. I've been in the series 3 years and I do not see any advantage one way or the other. Four out of the last Five years, the track champion cars have been dirt chassis at Sandusky Speedway. We are running 2 asphalt chassis today but have won with dirt chassis also.

You can check out the rules and schedule at www.buckeyesupersprints.com or www.sanduskyspeedway.com


Stephens Racing

Flat Rock is a high banked quarter mile. It has longer turns and the shorter straight a ways. You are turning a lot but you can race two wide no problem. Go to the ARCA website and you can see the overhead of the track to get an idea. Lots of people on this site have raced there and some are weekly racers there. They will be able to give you much better advice than I as I have only driven the track 5 or 6 nights and that was in a Legends Car.

Terry, Talon, Trevor...which ever T you are,

You will absolutely love Flat Rock. You guys will fly on that track. It's a big high banked 1/4 mile circle. Lots of room to pass. The high groove works too.
We run the legends cars there a couple of times a year and it's one of my favorite tracks. Scott and all of the track people there are a class act. You won't be dissapointed.

Race safe.
Rick Kilbourn