How many are going to the meeting at A&W in Mason tomorrow night? Anyone know the topics to be discussed?

This is for spartan? Right.

Meeting is 8AM at the A&W, in Mason, not evening.

Topics will include Mods @ Springport in 08, tire impound @ both tracks?, tires and what ever you think is needed.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

Drivers present at meeting were, Ken Bushner, Perry Davenport, Dan Loughan, Earl Miles, Chris Ozanich, Matt Schindewolf, Nyle Weiler and Brian Roes, representing Wayne Haughton.

Jim Leasure, Doug & Carolyn Allen & Jim Barker.

Discussed were how many shows that mods would be run at Springport and how much support there would be with a purse that would be less than Spartans.

Tires and which direction would be the best economical move. Jim would like to see an impound, because there may have been some soaking going on and possible ways to curb it.

I will be posting a poll, both here and Spartans web site to get some input from more drivers.

There will be another mod meeting next Saturday morning, 11/24 @ 9AM at the Eden Rd office.

At this meeting Jim would like Mod drivers who can attend to come and share there positive ideas as to which direction both tracks will take.

This meeting is open to ALL mod drivers and or those who have interest in the class.

We would like all who read this message board to encourage other drivers who have interest in racing @ Spartan and or Springport to get on here in a day or 2 to participate in the polls.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

The Governor has done af fine job providing a synopsis of this morning's get together, informal chat.

I would encourage all mod drivers that have serious interest in considering Springport in their racing schedule for next year to please make contact with Dan (hope you don't mind this suggestion Dan) and let him know of your thoughts if you cannot attend next Saturday's mod meeting at the warehouse on Eden.

And all mod drivers who are intending to run at Spartan next season get your thoughts to Dan if you cannot attend this meeting, so that your point of view can be considered by Jim as he lays his plans for next year.

Use pm or this site/the poll he will put up here and at the Spartan site to get him the info. Just so all can have as much input as they wish.

I know Dan will put forth your points at the meeting for you if you cannot attend.

It is important for everyone's thoughts and concerns to be known and considered.

And I know Jim wants to hear our thoughts and concerns also.

Let's look forward to next year, and some great competition between us at two great tracks, Spartan Speedway and Springport motor Speedway.

have a good day,

schinde

That was a nice time to call a meeting for those who live further away.Seems to me like it was designed to limit opinions to those who mattered to themselves at the exclusion of everyone else.
I myself will not race anywhere that tires are impounded. That is a waste of our time and money.The economy will probably be worse next year and adding time and expense to it will do no good at all. Maybe we could just make everyone buy new tires every night and Jim could raise the pay to reflect the extra expense of those tires. Say make 400 to start and 500 to win. Then those tires could be stuffed down other classes throats at their expense. We would be doing them a favor by cutting 20 bucks off the price cause they have 60 laps on them.
I do believe K-Zoo did not stick to their tire rule all year and no other track is impounding tires. Angola racers did not cry about tires when I was there,neither did Dixie with all their rules designed to keep competition out of their area. I heard nothing about it from Whittimore or Auto City. Why is Spartan special?
Follow those black marks from the track at practice directly to the pit they came from and escort them to the gate unless they buy new tires on the spot and puncture their soakers. Any tire shiny between the treads get the same.Just release some air of a suspected tire out and smell it. This is not majic or witchcraft. No one wants to spend the energy and time. Even if they are getting PAID to do it.It's easier to clown around with your buds than line cars up and inspect them every week. As much as I do not care for one certain promoter in our past I do always give credit for inspectons almost every week.For 98% was the problem.
There used to be inspectors from IMCA that did not know all of the racers come and tech cars pretty regularly. They did not know who contributed to the track and who was friends and relatives of the home team so things were a little more professional and fair.
The track should have an outside service clarify and enforce rules. Like real engineers to specify the specs and sort out fact from fiction. This having rules made by non mechanical non competing passers by is crazy.
Almost every rule maker and enforcer from the past 20 years is gone from racing completely and are back where they came from. Which is not at a race track. The same is true of racers,most from 5 years ago are gone. Those of us left have to have 3-5 year racers make rules based on what they want not what racing needs. Maybe uniform rules are the only thing that will pick up car counts. The fans will come with the cars.
Of course impounding the late model tires was a great success that maybe everyone should wait in line twice a night on a night when time between getting out of work and the tracks curfew is only 6 hours with 2 being travel time. Added to pit pass wait time,tire pick up wait time,turn in wait time,pay line wait time and I do not have any time.It is questoinable enough to spend 30 grand to race for $100 for most racers 10th on back. I am old and do not jump thru hoops so good anymore. A few more and I will go back where I came from.
I just know some fool will say quit your job cause racing is worth it. Who will it be?
WE need a michigan mod drivers meeting and vote for rules for ourselves.This local stuff is killing us mods. Don't think so look at average car counts EVERWHERE. Take those same 12 car or less nights and add 6 or 8 travelers or more like was common with common rules and racing was greatly improved. It was nice to see people show up and race who were from elsewhere and were equal. Racers like Kelly Morrow,Dave Theil,Dave Bice,Sam Faur,Dave Mingus,Rick Stout,Bobby,Larry Wallace, Murrany,Roger Terlosky,Dan Baily and many more who could show up at your home track and kick your ass by your rules(and theirs) and take your money home or put you on a trailer watching the feature. But that is the problem now a days. We have small meetings at difficult times and places to jump thru hoops held up for you to jump thru. What if you had 20 regulars and 12 visitors of the above quality racers showed up? 12 regs on the trailer and one good show worth purchasing a ticket for. What about an all star race invite and draw for start position? I would probably go to it if I was not in it.Probably wouldn't miss it. Imagine that,making a show interesting. With more personalities and more anticipation instead of the same old sameold. Get some useful options not more hassle for these guys.
Of all those attending how many have won a show anywhere but home? Or won a show at all? How many have traveled 100 or more miles to make a show that had a semi? That seems like a very narrow cross section of racers to decide the direction of racing. To me anyway.
I cannot make the meeting so that is my opinion. The floor is yours.

Dick,

This meeting was thrown together at the last min as some of us did not want to stand in the cold building at Jim's office wharehouse and listen to the issues about who will promote Springport now that Maurice is not the promoter.

Why do you think there is now an OPEN invitation to all mod driver set for next Saturday?

Jim wants to gets ideas from a cross section of driver, not the CLICK, as you seem to think.

Jim wants to get ideas in place before he leaves on vacation the 27th of Nov, as he will be gone thru mid Dec.

Why do you think I left Larry a voice mail at home, just so all from the Owosso / Corunna area would not know about this meeting that just came about late on Thursday.

On the impound there is mixed feelings on this and Jim wants everyones input.

As far as your other comments I won't even give you the satisfaction to reply.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

Dick,

Please just once try to be positive and not the think the world is out to get you. We'll pass on your opinions. Everything came together this week about Friday at 2pm. Sorry it didn't cross our minds. I'll personally post a full update Saturday afternoon for those that cannot make it.

Spartan is trying to better their program and Springport is trying to establish a program. It takes baby steps and if you like the race tracks then support them. The meeting today went well. Jim is open to constructive ideas. Granted he doesn't want us to show up and chew his ass. So please if you cannot make the meeting or know someone who can't please PM either I or Dan so that we share your opinion. We want all the voices heard so please think about it and let us know.

See you all on Saturday.
Perry

Dick, There is more truth to your statements than most would like to addmit.

I've been involed in racing for over 40yr and seen most tracks mess up there rules to please there friends!

I would rather see commen rules and let setup and driver skill make the differnts.

Here's a really wild idea.

Put together your thoughts on where there are inconsistencies between various track rules, point out those inconsistencies, come up with an idea to make them consistent, and then send them to Dan, or to Jim, or go to the meeting next Saturday.

Please do not overlook the point here, in that Jim is asking for input, to make the mod class at Spartan the best it can be, and to figure out a way that we can have one of the nicest facilities around available for us to drive on, that being Springport.

We all have ideas and opinions, some based on years of experience, some based on not as many, but enough to understand what we are in.

Everyone has a valid point in their thinking process.

Let's put it together and present it to the decision maker.

Please note:

"Discussed were how many shows that mods would be run at Springport and how much support there would be with a purse that would be less than Spartans."

"Tires and which direction would be the best economical move. Jim would like to see an impound, because there may have been some soaking going on and possible ways to curb it."

"At this meeting Jim would like Mod drivers who can attend to come and share there positive ideas as to which direction both tracks will take."

"This meeting is open to ALL mod drivers and or those who have interest in the class."

Pretty self explanatory.

Don't kill the messenger, just put some thought into these subjects and let Dan or Jim know your thoughts.


have a good day,

schinde

Who is all being invited to this weeks meeting? I believe if this is to discuss springport you should invite those who race at springport. I don't think this web site is the proper way to decide when there should be a meeting. Let's not forget about the people that supported springport when they were running mods (that are not members of MSTRC). The proper thing to do would be to invite all even if that takes pulling up old points sheet to send every one a invite not just the regulars of MSTRC. I would feel better with the 16-20 drivers making decisions rather than 7!

That's what we are trying to accomplish. But everyone wants to tell us how to do it instead of help say "Hey, there is a meeting this Saturday". 7 of us got together and decided that what needs to be talked about needs to be talked about by more, so here we are. Geesh, we try to do it all the way we should and still get chewed. We have a limited amount of time to get with Jim, so it's this Saturday or not till like 2 months from now. Sooner the better we all thought, so that we know what's going on before opening night.


If there is ANYONE interested in coming you are more than welcome. The 7 of us would appreciate it. There should be mailing going out Monday to all the registered drivers from last year. So do the favor if you know someone that doesn't check the forums please let them know.

I will say right off the bat, don't argue for the Hoosier 970, we've beat that horse and now it's haunting us to this day. It's not going to happen at Spartan. So please don't make your #1 gripe the 970, it's a conversation that isn't going to go anywhere. It's what we all really want and can't have it, it's been tried. Even the friends of the track Dick, they don't always get what they want after all.

In case something happens and I can't make it, my main concern is that American Racer MUST come up with a harder tire. That street stock tire is junk.

Mike

Mike & Mod32,

You must not have talked to OZ or me, as we all want to get away from the street stock tire, as it does wear to fast and can't just be bolted on and raced.

Jim will be having conversation with Wayne from MRTW this week to seek other options.

If we can't get the old MMA tire w/o the MMA stamp, then the 8" slick that is a smaller version of the SLM tire might be the next best option.

It is faster when new but appears to stabilize after a heat cycle or 2. There was some testing done this fall with that tire by at least 3 teams, 2 @ Springport on a Thursday and 1 or 2 teams had them on @ Spartan one night. They felt it was a very solid choice, plus it was about 10.00 less than the current tire. Nyle Weiler also ran the tire @ Kalamazoo for one hot lap session and liked the stability in the corners. The tires had approx 60 laps and 4-5 heat cycles on them when he tested them at that time. They seem to exibit very little wear after these tests. And NO I was not one that got to test the tire as I could not make this testing that Wayne from MRTW requested.

We discussed a limit of one tire per night which would go a long way to offset the added speed of the slick when new. There was talk about letting teams buy up to 6 tires on opening night and possibly 2 tires the last weekend of the month, as Kalamazoo does. Then 1 tire per night after that.

This was only discussion, not anything that there has been any decission on as more drivers need to share their input.

It does not sound like an impound would be in place @ Springport.

So for those who want to share their ideas, contact one of us or try and attend the meeting next Saturday.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

If it's the same tire that the USA mods used, then I can only support it if there is a 1 tire per night rule. Those tires are enough of an advantage when new to create a problem.

Mike

So just what did not work out about the 970 tire,it is just fine and everyone I know who races it likes it just fine. The only problem was it is a tad slower than a softer american racer. Who had that brain child idea to run 2 different tires anyway? It wasn't my idea but I paid like everyone else. Now we have a new idea to change again.
So after 80 laps on used tires who passed Brian Nester and Bud Perry on the 970 with American Racers? Larry Wallace is who in case some did not notice. He had old tires and ran em 100 laps and killed everyone who says they are no good,won't hold up,will fade,blister and so on?
Stay on the 970 only and do not impound. Or maybe add 100 pounds to the Americam Racer to equal things out. Why does everything have to cost us money we do not have.
That slick is no good and that is why everyone who ran it got away from it. It is quite a bit smaller so gears will have to change. I set fast time at Angola with 2 new ones and 2 old ones and most people put 4 new ones on and ran them 4 laps easy and pulled in. They are jerky and easy to lose control when they snap you around after loosing traction slightly. Definately not a good tire for rookies as thay have a radial feel to them. That is they hold nice till they slip then they will jerk you around violently and over correcting is easy if you are not careful.
Dan, don't do us any favors leave things alone that we all do not vote on. You do not speak for MOST of us but you won't dignify that with an answer I suppose. If you came down to us commoners level maybe you would listen to what we have to say with an OPEN MIND instead of think you know best for all of us. If everyone wants slicks and says so I will buy them if I race there.Not just because you think we need them.

Ok here's the deal on the tires. The tire of choice is the 970, it's what we've wanted for two years. Let me say that again for those who choose to make an argument out of this. We all want the 970! We already know that we cannot have it at Spartan. All we keep hearing is how the SS tire is junk, use it up, blister it whatever. I personally didn't see or have any problems with it. But I already know I can't have the 970 so I'm to the point of whatever majority rule is on tires. But the 970 won't happen, I'm sorry and I apologize for all those making that decision. Tires have been the largest issue thus far in the mods. Granted I do realize that us "flash in the pans" are in the forefront making calls and having meetings. But that's how it works. Technology changes, attitudes change. If there were to be a vote I'm sure a lot of us would just vote to stay on what we were on. There are a bunch of us that have just said screw it. I'm not advocating for a tire other than the 970, all I care about is that it is no harder than that. The slick is comparable and cheaper. Arguing for the 970 is getting us know where, we need to get off the subject at Spartan. Springport you'll probably be able to run them, not sure on that one. Dick why can't you make the meeting Sat.? Is there anything other than wanting the 970 that you want? I'm not against your opinions by the way, you just need to calm down. We're not all out to get you, or keep you away. But as a group we get tired of being called a bunch of idiots. I've talked with Dan many times and don't at all feel as though he has some other agenda. If he does at all it's minor. As far as only a few of us getting together it's because it's been proven that a smaller cross section can have a more constructive discussion than 30. Get the ball rolling then call in everyone for a majority vote.

Usa mod guys were buying tires like crazy because they are fastest on the first run.

Wayne knows he's got a lock on that track and he's going to advise everyone based on what's best for him. I don't blame him, it's just business- he wants to sell tires...but the drivers need to stick together and demand the same tire that was used for MMA. If they made it for MMA when Spartan was the only paved MMA track, then they can make them for Spartan just the same.

My guess is that American Racer is trying to phase out any tire that lasts too long to be profitable.

Mike

Dick,

You seem to think I'm behind a bunch of rule changes, I'm not. The main topic's last Saturday were tires and the feasability of running mods at Springport on a limited schedule.

The ones who were there feel we need to look at other tire options. This has to be a group decision, not just 7 who came last week. For the record there were many others who were contacted but could not attend.

From now on I will make sure you are on my call list as I don't want you to feel left out.

I would ask that you bring some constructive ideas to the meeting. If you can't attend then please feel free to post your ideas here and I will re-print your post and take it un-edited to the meeting.

For the record I was not the one who proposed the slick. It was Wayne from Mich Race Tire that started talking about it last year and wanted it tested. He wanted me to test them, but I was busy on two different dates. I called Nyle Weiler on the Thursday morning that Wayne wanted the test. Nyle is retired and had time to make the test session that same afternoon.

Wayne gave him the 4 new slicks, monted them and even gave Nyle gas money for his time. Perry Davenport was also at Springport that night and ran them a few laps but had clearence problems with Nyle's wheels so he did get much time on them.

Nyle then took them to Spartan and Dick LaPratt ran them at least one hot lap session and the 49 car might have also ran them once.

Nyle then ran them at Kalamazoo the one night in hot laps. I have not even had that tire on my car.

Wayne says it is not the same tire the USA used and switched away from, but is proposing that tire or the same compound that the SLM are on.

Now what other things can I clear up to get you off my butt.

Oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One other thing you may be looking for is for me to admitt I was wrong, so here goes.

I was convinced that the Street Stock tire and the 970 were going to be almost equal in times and yes I'm one who proposed the idea of allowing both tire's last year and I was WRONG, but there were other's who felt the same as I did, so it was not just me who cost you tire money.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

Dan, I am not into rubbing noses in sh*t. I do not think anyone is after me. I do think some need to quit being condesending in their nature to me. I am no fool and it will not fly.
So it is ok for Wayne to look out for his interest but not us who have to pay the bill to look out for our interest. What kind of a deal is that?
We will all have to raise our cars to run them small slicks. Do you think we will improve car counts by forcing another 600 bucks worth of tires up our bottoms. That is bare minimum amount if you want a spare. That has been proven to work over and over in the past right? Trying to keep visitors out is best done by changing your rules to some noone else has right?
So why have a meeting if the only point is to tell us(already have) that no matter what we say or do the American Racer something is going to get forced upon us and all we can do is leave? I will most likely leave and I do not think I will be alone.
So when we set up our suspension angles and heights we will have to change to go ANYWHERE but Spartan. Won't that be fun going from an 80 inch tire or less to an 87 inch tire. Where do you want to be at a disadvantage at. I do not have time to change every night,plus turn in and pick up tires and probably more b/s added cause some one thinks it is good for us.
ALso I am not excited,give me a break. Does anyone think I am setting here drooling or wired up or something? Not.
Finish killing mod racing at Spartan. I can go elsewhere for some real mod racing that run the 970 like A-C,Dixie,Owosso,Angola,K-zoo,Whittimore plus USA Mods. WHy are some so intent on killing mods in Lansing over who makes profit from our tires.
Ring the funeral bells.

Dick,

You need to come to the meeting and express your point of view. You may just make some points that make sense to other drivers. You need to voice your opinion on an impound, as it is sounding like there are guite a few driver who are not in favor of it. I told Jim last Saturday that I did not think an impound would work when trying to get the same drivers on Fri & Sat. The track would have to transport tires to Springport and then back each weekend.

Jim is looking to put a stop to tire soaking, that is why he is proposing an impound. He will just have to put in place some very strict punishment and a random check of tires to try and cub it if the impound is voted down.

BUT it does not appear the 970 will be an option. Hell I would love to have the same tire for all tracks, but Jim does not have the time or resoures to chase tires every couple of weeks. Plus Wayne owns the tire changer and air compressor that is at both tracks.

I did not say the slick was going to be the tire, just that it was one option. I did talk to Wayne yesterday and it now sounds like we may be able to get the old MMA tire back w/o the stamp.

Jim has sent out some info to all registered drivers, plus went thru some old Sprinport reg and sent those out also. Everyone should recieve them before the meeting.

So will you commit to attending on Saturday?

The, Governor / Dan Logan

If it would help I am sure I can hook Wayne (NOT JIM) up with RV performance and Bob could supply Wayne with 970's at a very fair price so that way Wayne can still make money on tires and you guys can have more options available to more drivers?


What do you think?

I was just wondering if there were any chances to explore something like that, seems like its a win-win for everyone unless it gets Wayne in trouble with McCreary.

I'm pretty sure Wayne just won't deal with Hoosier. He hasn't had a whole lot good to say about them.

Wayne told me he would retire and draw S.S. before he ever sold Hoosier Tires.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

So is this what is best for Wayne or us?

Would you race there if they switched to the 970 exclusively? I know it's a bit of a drive, but is that what stops you from going?

Looks like Spartan is the track for Friday night racing now, so anyone that wants to run on fridays is going to be buying tires no matter where they go.

If they can really get back the same compound that the MMA was using, then 1 set of tires would be good for 5,6,7,8+ visits. I'm sure most guys would buy 6 though for spares and what-not. 6 of those tires would be good for a lot of racing on that track.

Mike

Another important consideration is that if the 970 tire was used, the impound would definately not work. However the American Racer brand wouldn't be needed at any other track.

If you really needed the wheels, I'm sure you could dismount them. It would be a pain in the rear, yes, but if that's what really needs to happen to keep things fair and there are no other options, then so be it.

Mike

We've asked this very same question, multiple times. Maybe just maybe we can bring it up on Saturday and make some headway. What I think is a part of it is that none of the other divisions want to switch. Which would mean the Hoosier would be the odd rubber on the track, with no good supplier. It's always going to be about wanting the Hoosier until we get it. I'm to the point that I will only advocate for the 970. So whatever the track wants to run is fine with me as long as it's no harder than the MMA tire or the 970. If you could PM me with your thoughts or even check out the letter and questionairre from Jim.

Thanks,
Perry

I have had to change thru the years as my CUSTOMERS need come first. I had a carburetor shop for 20 years but when they died I moved on to fuel injection and electronics to keep my bills paid. I would hate to see Wayne fizzle out but I hate to see Sprtan fizzle out too.
What made the mod division grow was common tire and rules but there have been so many little meetings around the state and protective rules made that noone can get a full field let alone a semi with a full field.
Add 100 pounds to the ss tire and lets race against them with the Hoosier. Not many real suggestions fly here just threats and such. Maybe Larry Wallace and myself will retire with Wayne and we could just sit in our chairs and nod off. I read Larry's response on the flier at his house last night and I guess if the track would rather lose veteran competitive racers than run what everyone else is running the so be it.
Not having to bust ass to get to Lansing in time to get a qualifying lap on Friday makes life easier for me anyway. Starting last is just pure destruction for my car as there are so many out of control cars back there it just is not worth it. I will say since our little meeting called to boot me but failed things have improved and kudos to Jim Leasure for listening and seeing the real problem.
And who wanted that little meeting? Maybe I will have a little meeting of my friends and customers and speak for everyone at my place.
How bout it there,Mike,Oz,Butlers,Parishs,Kennedy,Wallace,Bud Perry, and Ellis. You guys be willing to discuss things at our own meeting? Everyone gets red or blue chips and we drop them in a box to vote and count them imediately in plain view.
Maybe we could buy Wayne a blanket and rocking chair. I see no sense in killing our division but I also think Wayne is a good guy and has been reliable for years and there is no easy choice.
The whole reason for mods was to take rule making and important decisions away from those who profit from making said changes.
Just another nail in the ol coffin

So it sounds like this could turn into a "970 or mods don't race" type meeting.

Thats pretty deep and it would be terrible to have to do, but after thinking about some of these posts I'm seeing, maybe that's what it will take.

We ALL like Wayne. He's been fair to all of us over the years. Unfortunately, business decisions have to made based on what is best for the business (the mod class) and not what is best for the people who sell us stuff.

I guess one other consideration is this- If one of the racers or someone else would maintain a 970 inventory for the mods, would the drivers be willing to use hand tools to dismount and mount them at the track? I've done it...It's not that hard...

I still like the MMA tire. But if I'm in the minority I can accept that. All I really care is that I never have to buy any of those street-stock tires.


Mike

Has anyone considered the Goodyear G-24 tire?

If Wayne is unwilling to obtain and sell the Hoosier tires, how about Goodyear tires? The G-24 is a tire that would last longer than the Hoosier 970 and also longer than the old MMA tire.

They can be bought in quantities of 100 to get free shipping straight to the track. 16 Modifieds buying 6 tires each would use up 96 out of that shipment. They can sell for $95 each with a nice profit for the track.

Two sets of tires would probably last a full season running every Saturday night at Springport. This is the tire I was considering for the Econo Mod class, but that's all behind us now.

Just a thought and possibly a suggestion.

-Maurice

I wasn't going to do this, but what the heck.

Schinde wrote the following:

From September 29, 2005:

"Simple rules and a common tire will help the mod class.

Simple rules and a common, hard eight inch tire will create more of what makes mods exciting, close running, position changes from the beginning to the end of the feature, active cars on the track thoughout the race.

I am pounding a common drum here as a part of this entire equation and still think it is important. That common drum is a common tire. That is something the promoters and us racers can work on together, from a business perspective."

From September 29, 2005:

"MaddMike is right, the current hard tire that the mods run on will control motor costs most effectively. It also requires all of us to continually improve our setup and driving skills. It makes a mod a mod. WE all want to go faster, going faster is fun. But it is also fun to outdrive your competitor. And it is also fun to work on learning how to outdrive your competitor. And it is also fun to work on making your setup better than your competitors.

As such, someitmes the KISS rule can be employed. And a hard tire is indeed a wonderful fit with the KISS rule.

Now, how about that common tire idea?"

From September 29, 2005:

"I do not think that it would be an anti-revenue move if all or at least the great majority of pavement tracks in the area got together with all drivers of all classes and saw the benefit of a common tire for all. Again, as I pointed out earlier, and as Gavin supported, $600 a pop to visit a new track is a tough pill to swallow, and most of that is tire money if that track doesn't run your current inventory of tires. So, I guess, and I am guessing only, that some of the money lost in a change from say, Hoosier to Am Racers could be made up with new visitor money. And, from a business standpoint, putting myself in a promoter's shoes, I would have some serious talks with Wayne and others in the tire supply business, and see what kind of a margin could be garnered with one or two tracks using the same rubber, and five or six tracks doing the same. And from the tire supplier's point of view, the supply and demand curve changes to their benefit, and we all know what that means. Both parties profit, and profit again, is not evil or bad.

For the upcoming few seasons, I know there are contractual relationships that must be honored, but it is like any other relationship, it ultimately ends or needs tweaking, and the time may be coming for that to happen, for all classes, not just mods. So we don't get a two tire rule, I would give that up for the opportunity to have a common tire amongst the asphalt tracks in this state. The tire issue is a concern for tracks, drivers and any sanctioning body, and would require all parties to come to terms."

From September 26, 2005:

"Don't want to run my mod on street tires, don't want to run with other drivers on street tires anymore than they would want to run with me.

Don't like the fact that there are different tires at different tracks. Don't think the tracks will figure out that a common tire will help every asphalt mod driver.

Don't want radical rules changes that will cost big dollars in the off season, don't have enough of the little green things."

From October 7, 2005

"it also appears that there doesn't seem to be a lot of optimism on the common tire, (even "bang" though "boom" I "bang" think "boom-boom" that "bangity bang bang" is "boom" a "bang-boom" key "boom" point "bang" to "boom" be "bang-bang" hammered "boom-bang-boom" out "bang!!!!) (Beating on that common drum there, I was) "


Just a few posts from way back when I was pounding a drum for a common tire, no matter what it was.

But then again, who the hell do I think I am anyway.

have a good day,

schinde

Same thing.......different year.
Might be time to bite the bullit, and make 970's happen.
Some times leaders have to make hard desicions, and find creative ways to get it done.
Otherwise......same thing........next year.

And to be clear about my comments......I'm saying, if Jim would like to do 970's, but won't because of loyalty to Wayne, then it's time to make the hard desicion.
Or...maybe Jim does not want 970's.
Or... is it really just about tire machines and compressors?

All I know, is short term now, is not always best for long term future.

No tire is going to make everyone equal. We will still all be on the same tire and have fast and slow drivers.
Getting rules so we can travel is a drum that needs to be beat constantly because silence is taken for agreement. If you quit you lose.I am not buying slicks to run one track,period.
Maybe a Friday night Hoosier track will show up. It is still early in the 08 season and things can change quickly.
I am looking for a used dirt car that is fixable or I may grab some muffler pipe and build my own. Dirt sucks but almost all the good paying shows are dirt.Above $1000 that is,while asphalt tracks pay little more than 10 years ago even when pit passes triple,tires double and points funds are pitiful at best.We should demand part of the hot dog and beer money and get in their business like they want in ours. Put 50 cents in the prize money for every dog or beer sold.Incentive pay type thing. All they want is a free band to play while they sell stuff profitably. I think that is why Hollywood writers are on STRIKE... We don't have souviner trailers outside the gate to supplement our racing business.
We already shot ourselves in both feet and it does not look like our crutches will hold much longer.
Divide and conquer the mods is the object of most track owners not make them a strong competitive,high car count division.
What if football and basketball were subject to local special rules like we are? All sports have common rules right. You don't have to have their ball and helmet to play at their field.It is accepted that we all have the same equipment from the same manufacturers and are equal but different and we select what we like and use it. When we are all done talking and selecting maybe we can get back to competing but having losers is not politically acceptable so we can all be co-winners every week....Bench racers are the fastest.
I did not go to A-C at all this year cause their rules sucked and they said don't race here if you don't like it. Parking my car is cheap as hell so threats won't work on me. They did not keep the offending rules in force all year either. I do remember a voice mail saying they sure would like to see me there about July or so. Kind of like when we get asked at drivers meetings where all the cars are in July are after chasing them away with rules and changes.Lots say they know some still building and others are coming but about 1/3 way into the season few actually make it. Then pay cuts and expense increases come for those who do make it.
Sound familiar? Round 28 for me,,,ding ding

I don't want to start a big revolt or anything, but I think that it's quite important for all of the potential Spartan drivers to make a decision on this before the meeting instead of at it. If everyone is going to demand to run the 970 exclusively, then it needs to be clear and up front.

Regardless of whether it is my favorite tire or my least favorite tire, I agree with the the reason that I am consistently seeing guys give for wanting that tire.

So who's doing what...Let's hear it.

Mike

Mike,
I don't know that the majority of Mod guy's want the 970, but for sure there are a fair share that do, as it keeps coming back to that. To really make 970's work at SS and SMS, would you agree that they would have to run them on Supers, Sportsmen, etc? Then Tires can filter down class?
I supose they could run them on Mods only,and let the teams beg, borrow, and steal 970's from where ever they can, and Wayne could sell AR's to the rest.

For sure the 970's are working out for Kazoo. And I really don't know that the impound has much to do with it.
I guess it would be nice to know how the 970 came about over there. Did the drivers ask for it? Track mandate? Combination of both?

Kazoo is the only track that I have really seen tires passed down through the ranks, and the hand me downs are actually worth racing on.

Wonder if the Supers and Sportsman, etc, would like to switch to 970's for Spartan and Springport for '08?

I want 970's, both tracks, and no impound. What do we need to do to get them.

How are they handing down tires at K-Zoo when they have an impound rule? Also the late models and mods are the only classes on the tires. I know that K-Zoo sells used tires real cheap.

One problem with running the Hooiser tire is service. You either go to Indiana on a weekly basis to pick up tires or pay a large shipping fee to have them delivered. Then you have to provide your own compressor, tire machine and tire changer. With the American Racer, you eliminate all three problems. Running two race tracks, having a Thursday practice, and all the other upkeep around the two places make it difficult to spend a day going after tires.

Im not advocating the American Racer over the Hooiser......just stating the facts.

Thanks Bill,

Been waiting for someone who knew all those facts. I knew most of that but not enough to post it for the public. Will you be attending the meeting tomorrow? I feel that since you've been a part of both tracks and have seen what's worked and not worked it might be good to have some extra input.


Perry

Cross Post from SpartanSpeedway.com

For those who could not attend:

Meeting was very well attended. There were over 30 who attended and most were drivers or car owners. The tone of the meeting was a very positive one, with everyone realizing that we need to work together and help keep cost in check.

The message about which tire most would prefer to be on was heard loud and clear, but that choice just is not in the cards at this time.

Jim,

Don't forget that we discussed going back to having the previous weeks winner go behind the invert the next week. I think that will need to go back into the rules section for the mods.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

Doing away with the past winner starting behind fast time was not smart and I said so then so put it back .
So if getting tires is so hard why not run the old g-60 and order them from Lane automotive like we do everything else?
The track does not need to be in the tire business anymore than we need to be in the beer and hot dog business in the stands.
Did anyone mention a cut of the beer and dog profits now that the p work was brought up. It is not for actual racers to use the p word but the track is willing to put it in front of our needs and wants. Since most wanted the 970 and there is no track profit in it that is a clear indication where the tracks loyalities are.
If Spartan is willing to sacrifice the mod class to sell a few more tires they deserve no loyality from me. We were a national class when they accepted us and had out own tire and rules nationwide. It did not matter what a track tire was we had our own everywhere all the time. Spartan is killing itself by outlawing so many cars(EVERYONE) just to sell a few extra AR tires.
Since the Hoosier night was success on late models it would seem like maybe it deserves a chance in mods. No one is going to come visit on a slower tire or be willing to buy 450 bucks worth of tires to visit. Maybe visitors will return or bring family with them and maybe race there regular.
There are still some who want to ride horses and make horseshoes for sale but most have updated and drive cars. Let them live in the past alone and not drag us down with them.
Looks like dirt for me on Friday nights.I am looking for a used chassis cheap. Bare and repairable is fine.
If Ihave to buy yet ANOTHER different tire is is going to be a dirt tire that can run at most dirt tracks.
I can go to 4 dirt tracks with one tire. Imagine that thinking???? Maybe car counts will be good there just for that very reason. I suspect the economy will be even tighter around Michigan next year and the 80 dollar tire legal everywhere will be EVEN MORE important.
Besides dirt Friday and asphalt Saturday will be like the old days of IMCA. When tires were common and rules were common and car counts of 30 was an easy night and 40 was normal and 55 was the most car count I ever won at. Imagine 55 cars for 20 spots? How much profit is in that Spartan Speedway? 30 or 40 extra cars at @$100 bucks a car average and only having to pay barely over tow money for the back markers past 24th spot. Pay the b and c feature winners no money except for last place feature money as they transfere.Extra races,no prize money,more beer and dog sales. A win win for the track and a lose lose for the racer. Add in 100 extra people in the pits buying dogs and beer and that would pay for the tow money for 24 on back with out having to touch the usual pit booth intake money. Trying to squeeze your last chicken to death will not yield more eggs for tomorrows breakfast. Make the move to get more chickens no matter what it takes.
You do not need a tire machine for Hoosiers. We all have our own air. Most dirt tracks do not have tire machines as they are so easy to install.
Keep Hoosiers and add weight to which ever tire is fastest to equal things out. Find ways to promote(?) racing. Maybe we should call owners discouragers as that they do best now days.
How many tracks are going to 30 bucks for a pit pass this year?How much are tires going up? Fuel? Pit slab rent? Registrations?Tow vehicle plates,insurance?
All this is ignored by us racers all year and we argue about tires and other junk.
How many will be able to afford all the savings we are in for?Where were all those drivers during racing season? Leave the rules alone if you did not race much or not at all.Go to a hockey meeting if u are bored.

Dick,

Maybe you need to become a Hoosier dealer, make the trip every other week down to Indiana for tires, share some of the tire profit with the track for the point fund and save us all money.

And while your down there buy some beer to bring back to sell and make a profit from it also.

One reason to go with the old MMA tire, is the plan is to be able to pass that tire down to the SS guys who can't afford new ones all the time. The shorter tire would not work very well for that class.

The, Governor / Dan Logan