When everyone has been bashing the template/crate or pro late models, here are some reasons to build or convert to this kind of racing in 2008,

Auto City Speedway runs these on a regular bases and some special shows

Spartan Speedway and Delaware Speedway (London Ontario) are allowing pro late models to run with no or little changes.

Lots of template /crate motor series based in Michigan; ASA late models, Uspro series, and Superpro series.

For the 2008 racing season, someone who has a template/crate motor car can do alot of racing to satisfy their needs.

crate motors on the stand looking for a used body cheap

i ratter race at delaware speedway then auto city any day...

lot better tech dept..

they put an a better show..

they are done racing by 11.00 pm, back in michigan buy 12.00

better pay....

racer 65&21

New ABC body complete (Five Star or ARP) are going for $2500. A good used ABC body between $800 to $1400.
Good luck finding a used one, the last used one we sold went for $1200.

I know as fans, we'd like to see more guys from the Port Huron area make the trek out...Heck, if youre around Detroit and run Toledo Sportsman, its only 2 hours or so to the track as well...

racingjunk.com has a few bodies on thier for under $500.00

what are they going to do about all these crates be massaged by some of these southern boys?

Read the rules for the series or tracks. Most of them are confiscating and/or suspending the driver and/or owner. ASA confiscated 4 motors in 2007. If someone feels the need to cheat, eventually you will get caught. One of the ways these "cheaters" are getting caught is they never get close to their qualifing time or are going much fast than they qualified in a race. Most of the competitors with legal motors have very close qualifing times and run pretty close to that time in a race condition.

The March issue of Circle track has a lenghty article about Crate motors.

GM has taken the position of if we build it they will find a way to cheat. Shifting the blame to the tech officials at local facilities or series into being able to catch the cheaters.

Series promoters who claimed the aftermarket bolts could not be had were handed hi quality replacement bolts. $400 dollars will buy someone a set of hi quality 602/604 bolts seal bolts. The money in racing if put in a cheaters hands will drive up the cost of any series.

They offer a new solution crate motor to the tune of 10k now as an alternative for the future.

This all is never going to end. 10k motors will become 15 k motors and then along the lines of the Nielson Nascar type motors.

They are going to put the funds into promoting or marketing their product. The local engine builders who build outlaw motors are not going to have any part in the racing market and the markets that they used to help suport . I.E. local parts vendors/machine shops are left the scraps. How long before that crate motor is totally out sourced shifting yet another part of the auto industry offshore.

Not trying to sour your good times here folks, I just dont see it as the solution to any racing problem for long. The money will end up in a corporations hand if you hand away your rights for long. That or a new low cost alternative series will try and break into the ranks. Interesting to see what the future holds.

I also read the Circle track articles, they have been an on going discussion. There was a lot of pros and cons in the discussions that were pointed out. Yes you can cheat the sealed motor. The parts are out there. But it was clear to me thruout all the talk, that the success or failure of a sealed crate motor class or series lies solely on the promotor. If a stringent tech procedure is implemented and the investment of the proper tech tools to accomplish this is set into place, then it will succede. They cannot expect to have the entirety of of any class/series to police themselves. Superpro , USPRO, and the ASLM have realized this from the beginning and that is the reason for their success. Without the promotors willingness to insure a level playing field, they will be destined to fail. Also I have found that when a certain level of confidence is achieved in the promotor doing what they need to do , that the competitors actually work harder and put there efforts in making there car handle better and in driver ability. To me that is true competition. Crews competing with crews and drivers with drivers. Technoligy, information and the use of , will be in the forefront, not horsepower and cheating.
Dave

AMEN..... Dave!!!!!

AMEN and a Ditto! Off the subject, do you still have Kortz old car? There are some members and lurkers looking for a good car or roller on this site. For anyone interested this is a great car if he still has it.


Greg

Thanks Greg. And yes I do. I have the makings of a complete roller. 90% of the parts are new, never ran. The winters rear has 2 races. The Brinn trans is used as is the rack and servo , steering column and brake and trans master cylinders. But are in excellent condition. 4 new outlaw calipers and performance friction rotors and wide 5 hubs with new bearings. Howe ball joints and all new hiems. Have all wiring and gauges. Cooling and oil,new hoses for all including fuel and steering. Wheels too. Basically everthing but body. Also have fresh Ford engine. Chassis has all updates and is powder coated.

Dave

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/Motorsp...790461-sun.html
More news tomorrow....

ONe thing to consider are spec motors from independent motor builders using aftermarket parts. One of my first engine builders, Schwank Engines out of Minnesota, convinced several sanctioning bodies to allow the Shwanke spec engine in the class. It used after market parts that are superior to the GM crates, offered reasonable HP (580), great durability (claimed 2000 laps between freshening, with a spring change option), and were reasonably priced (7500).

I'd like to see something like that become prevalent.

Bring the rolling chassis dyno to the track. The ultimate tech.

Shayne, the problem with a chassis dyno is it will show varying real wheel HP ratings depending on what is between your rear wheels hubs and the crankshaft. If you run a LW rearend, lightened trans, etc. and the next guy runs all stock drivetrain your legal crate combo could show better HP numbers and a Red Flag to the tech guys. The crate deal is a mess and will get worse as GM stops selling sealed bolts in a few weeks leaving the bolt deal to each track/series to deal with.

This reply is not meant to offend anyone, so sorry in advance if it does.

Why the heck does everyone think that the bolts are the magic cure all? Let me ask this all you SLM fans, how do you police the 9 to 1 rule? What special bolts do the tracks use to make sure they are correct? My point here is it doesn't matter what engine you run or what class you run, cheaters will always be there and it will always fall on the tech guys to catch them. Crates aren't for everyone nor do we want them to be. As for the new GM crate motor, there will be no more rebuilds its run them for 2-3 seasons or more. These are based off of the old ASA National Tour motor which were very reliable. Also that 10k number will include all front dress including waterpump, altenator, power streering pump, ATI blancer and belts, a 750 carb and headers. All of these will be spec items and every team must run them. We have the opportuntiy to correct some of the mistakes we made with the 604 program.

Thanks for listening,

Ron Varney
President
ASA Late Model Series/USPRO

Ron, only brought up bolts because GM's marketing program from day one to sell this crate deal has been "Sealed Motors with marked GM bolts " to even the playing field. Now, the bolts are history? Many of the teams I've talked too that ran ASA or Fastrak crate series found that the crates were about 390hp actual dyno and another $2500-$5000 investment got them 30-40hp or so. Many have two motors in their inventory with up to $10K per motor investment to run with the front runners. We've migrated over here on the West side of MI to a program that I think has saved SLM's money and kept car counts up. It's called hard tires. Not everyone has jumped on the bandwagon but we had over 50 cars at 2007 events ranging from $3500-$30,000 to win. Our "SLM" motors have gone on a 100hp diet and $30K engines are history at most W Mich/N. Indiana tracks.

The crate deal is headlined on every current circle track magazine and is a heated topic. Your USPRO series certainly has many positive things going, it's just the crates are getting bad headlines due to some of the above items.

I agree on the 9-1 deal. Who ever thought a 9-1 was saving anyone any money has been proven wrong. It's ironic those "open" motor series migrated to sealed motors for the most part.

I see where UMP is going to crate motors, the 602 & 604 chevy.

It would seem that this statement is somewhat false... it's not a change to crate engines from open engines, they are now adding sanctioning a current class of latemodels that uses the crate engine already.

I know we have no plans of changing our open engines to a crate engine any time soon on our dirtcar.

For the big shows, UMP just opened up the tire compounds to 4 as well.

And to stay on topic... GM's marketing group has also been know to change direction very quickly when they want too. The LS based engine is the premire V-8 engine in all GM's truck and performance car lines now... why keep pushing the older SBC engines? Good for them, bad for the little guy.

I have been reading everybodies opinions on the Crate Motor debate.I have a Super Pro Car AND a Super Late Model that is FINALLY almost done.NOW I HAVE TWO CARS JUST TO TRY TO RACE AT SPARTAN SPEEDWAY.Where is the savings?It took my two years to get a Super Late that would be competitive,know it is obsolete?What is everybody who has Super Late Engines supose to do with them?I am a little frustated with the whole deal..This is just my opnion.Maybe it is time to sell it ALL...

Why can't you race the Super at Spartan?


Greg

I can.My point is I have a unlimited motor that will be useless next season.I bought a New Howe Superlate at the end of last summer which from my understanding will be useless next year.I went out and bought a SUPER PRO CAR so when my current equipment is obsolete I have a car to race.I still do not understand the current where the savings really is going to be.A Outlaw Body is way cheaper then a Template Body and the fact is people who are going to spend Big Money on their Race Cars.NO MATTER what class it is will spend the money.We all seen the 604 Cheater Crate Engine on Racing Junk.I am sure that is not the only one.The management at Spartan said the poor Economy in Michigan is part of the reason for low car counts.I am not sure the Crate Engine Class is the answer.Maybe/Maybe Not.I guess we will see.I am curious what everybody else is going to do with their Outlaw Equipment once the rules change for good.By the way I am going to try to race my SuperLate at Spartan some Fridays and my SuperPro Car other nights!!!!

Dean

Your Super will not be obsolete Jim changed the plan to be only crate motors in 2009 and is going to go with the weight options 2600 for crates 2700 for steel heads and wet sump and 2800 for alum. heads and dry sump and this is going to be the rule for the coming years so you have the choice to bring both cars. Jim made the change form mandating the crate motor to help out everyone that still has the other motor combos I hope this clears everything up.

Evan

Hey Evan

That does clear everything up!!!!!I was getting a little worried for a bit.Thanks for the response.

Dean

http://delawarespeedway.com/GCRW300FORMAT.php