I just happen to notice while checking rules all over around here that A-C has joined the world and now allows aluminum heads and coil overs. 50 hail mary's to them.
That may change my race plans as I am legal there with out spending a dime. Now if Dixie and Whittimore would pull their heads out of the sand and maybe Spartan would show a little less ass from having their heads in the sand and get on the tire program with the rest of the tracks in Michigan we would be back to square one where we were 20 friggin years ago. Uniform rules for all mods in Michigan that it took a promoters group only a few years to destroy and 15 years to get back even close to that again.
Get rid of this tire impound rule like K-Zoo has and let us race and worry about selling tickets and promoting races and leave us alone and things may work out. This choking out classes for their own good has to stop before we all are all broke and burned out cause there is no one coming up to replace those who quit.
I want to go home after racing not pull hot tires off and carry them around just to do it again when I come back,sorry I don't want to spend that time as I have many other things to do at midnight on Saturday like get home so I can get my house work done on Sunday not sleep all day cause I was out chasing tires around a race track.
We all know what a soaked tire looks and feels like. We know where they are. Should get a group of drivers together and go confront the offender on the spot. Not make vague threats of death to any one caught and never catch anyone like tracks like to do. Spartan pulled my car in a garage for 30 minutes one night years ago to check for soak after a win. We figured we were done for this night as soak was still drippin off them but we got ok'd and paid. I figured they choked out on the fumes it took so long but maybe they had too many fumes before going into the garage.We used to burn nitro and it smelled but no one noticed that either. This was in the claimer days and extra ponies from junk motors was useful. I was a late comer to doing that kind of stuff because I figured playing fair was best but was seeing it all around me so I tried it. Expensive waste of more money but the nitro picked up the top end of a junk yard motor real nice till it exploded.

Dick, Just so you know aluminum head engines can only have 58% left side.

aluminum heads are legal at Whittemore.

Hmm, Nitro mixed with race fuel, I know that smell and so did the guys behind me.

We mixed it with alcohol and upper cylinder lube. It was expensive I'll say that and tire soak is expensive and neither one will transform a backmarker into a winner. Glad that phase went away.I don't smell nitro anymore but soakin is common.
I can do the 58% for free, it should be 1000 pounds right side or 58% like USA Mods.
It seems like we were dumpin soak all over the tires to see if anyone would catch on but they never did. Even when they threatened to catch anyone that did it we watched one person put it on right at the track with people walking by and still no one noticed.
What is the pay and the rain policy now at A-C? I think they changed the rain policy last year.
A new barn will be nice if cars are teched regularly but just another storage area if not used properly.
So much for Mcar or whatever it was called. Every time promoters form a group it is to intimidate us drivers so I am glad it died. Guess they can't work together any better than racers and there are only a handfull of them.
Of course if no one has a job in Michigan we won't have to worry about having any fans or cars cause even stable jobs are leaving now. I do not look foward to filling the tank up and burning a $100 worth of fuel every weekend just to get to the track.8 miles per is not good these days. $3.50 every 8 miles is gonna make us think about how far we drive every night. Start money is barely gas money now days,this is gonna be a long hard year trying to keep the show going.

"Every time promoters form a group it is to intimidate us drivers so I am glad it died. Guess they can't work together any better than racers and there are only a handfull of them."

Mr. Maur,
I was the president of Whittemore last year. I sat in on that meeting with Mr Kern and Mr Dewitt. There was no hand wringing and plotting to intimidate anyone.

I have never set out to harm a driver in my life and would not take part in any group that did.

Either you are publicly running down my reputation - that of Mr. Kerns or Mr Dewitts. Which one of us is it or do you blame us all?

If you were there then I think you might be able to express the intent of forming MCAR.

If you were not- Then you are blindly speculating about my reputation or intent.

Either apoligize or shut your mouth about what we intended.

Im not going to have my name drug through the crap by anyone on this website.

Jeff Parish

Jeff has a valid point. I don't believe M-CAR was formed to intimidate drivers. Let's defuse this situation before it goes where none of us want to go. Let drivers drive, promoters promote and etc...............

I guess in your own way you think you were doing us good but that is not how it worked to be. One main reason us old guys got mods was to avoid having people like you and others change our rules every year based on what they thought was good for us. But you never paid your dues to be one of us and I really resent your trying to do us good from your living room chair.
I think my statement was dead on and you confirmed it. Lets make our own little fragmented group in east Michigan and make rules that keep racers from the outside away.
When you were adding weight for al heads and non stock center links it seems that alcohol cars lost their weight break that we have had for years. It seems to me that the rules were changed to give gas guys an advantage as alcohol cars carry more than 50# extra fuel
But then the center link weight penalty was dropped I see. I would guess that some who had some input said that was unfair.I would also guess they have the Howe link and they see no advantage. Can't you even see that these kind of rules hurt mod car counts. Why change stuff that the rest of the mod world has had for years? All that is needed is too look at what the rest of the mod world is doing and what go with the flow.
Every single promoter I have dealt with in 27 years thinks they knew what someone else needed,they are all gone and have been replaced several times over.At great cost to me,I parked my limited in the last round of rule changes in 1990.
What about the stock front end and brake rules that are not enforced. Pinto spindles do not come on chevelles of any year,but again those who have them must have say so in the rules. Why not address these issues ?

Old Chinese saying"too many cooks spoil the soup".
I can think of many things to help mod racing but I am only a racer not a track owner or promoter or a friend of one. Leaves me out.
Do things like enforce the rules we have with no excuses,do tech and weigh in before the feature and if you are not legal start last and fix it or stay home next week.Get rid of after the fact teching.
I remember going to Whittimore and having no tech inspections at all for the year end race. This saying this is for fun and there are cheaters but they can't win cause some old saying says cheaters never win is bull.
I was right again cause there are only 3 people in the mcar rules process and they didn't stick to their guns for more than a few nights. But at least you had a meeting which is more than us mod guys have ever done. Except for a few click meetings where they tried to vote stupid stuff in to protect their track from competition.
I like Angola cause they run a good show,teck cars every night,don't do things to protect their drivers form outside compoetition. It is the same mileage to there as it is your track so i would go to which ever one pays more and protects their own the least. Like I said let us race freely all over and cars will come. Try a USA show and see how they are and follpw suit.

I guess Scotty wasn't clear enough. Everyone needs to stop taking shots at other posters. Jeff has earned his respect with his involvement in racing for many years. If you have a problem with Jeff, man up and call him. It's not fair to do it here. So much of this could be avoided with a simple phone call.

"But you never paid your dues to be one of us and I really resent your trying to do us good from your living room chair."

I would guess that Mod911 doesnt actually know Jeff or he would know that Jeff is indeed a RACER!!!!!!!

Lets see Mod911 never said any names out right,then gets blasted for saying names not said?

Then we wonder why post are down

Maybe there is truth in what was said and truth is hard to hide from.

So go ahead and blast me,I've been at this game[racing] sence 1958! Have seen too much dumb things done in the hope of improving the sport!Most of the time it herts more than helps!!

I didn't 'blast' anyone. The conversation in question was clearly directed at Jeff. Discussion is great and encouraged. Disparaging someone's intentions or reputation is not encouraged. I'm all for cutting the costs in racing and I've also been at the tracks since I was three, attending several Indy 500 races by the time I was in first grade. All I said this conversation was best taken care of by a call. Voice inflections and thus meanings can not be used in writing a post. I remember when M-Car was first introduced and it was going to be the savior of the class. It wasn't but ideas come and go. Dick has seen multiple cycles of rules go around as have a number of us older fans. He has a large knowledge base that ranks up there with the best of them... I've never questioned that. I've watched him race many times... heck of a driver. If I recall, Dick was a Marine Sgt. They tend to get gruff now and then. I respect his service and what he has done. He may not remember me but I've told him that one night at a race.

The site founder has decided he wants some of the personal shots curbed. I work at the behest and grace of Mr. Darling. He has my email and phone number and he does not hesitate to tell me (us) when we dork up. We spoke at length at the MARFC banquet and we were given a direction to follow. Quite simply put... discuss away... we want your opinions... but he has told us that personal attacks are off limits. Dick is a business man and Jeff is a business man. In business, it is better to take care of your problems by speaking to the person involved.

as a racer that races at kalamazoo speedway and has won there (races and championship) i can assure you that it is a BAD, BAD, BAD idea to do away with impounding tires. If the impound rule was done away with and soak was brought in the picture, it would be impossible to compete with for non-regular/local racers, that is a guarantee. with no impound rule, the soaking would start, guaranteed and we would all do it without choice just to keep up. soaking is a pain in the rear, time consuming, dangerous, and plain stupid. I know gary very well and I know he wants cars and will do whatever he can to get them. He has even adjusted the tire rule for out of towners to be able run thier tires for a few nights to see if they wanna stay. As for the class, it looks as if we will have around 20-25 mods this year and possibly even more. I guess the tire impound rule is not bothering enough guys to decide not to build or run the class or track, so we should be fine without a racer that is the only guy i know rolling his tires back to the barn at midnight seeings how the races are over by 10:30 most nights. mod feature runs 2nd, around 9:00 and tires must be turned in right after the race. hell, by midnight the infield and upper pits party is well under way and most have been long gone or are at dinner. Dont get me wrong 911, we would love to have you race with us where the rules are enforced, the cars are teched and we have some great racing but........... we will also continue to have a TIRE IMPOUND and alot of us kalamazoo regulars and locals hope it stays that way.

I'll agree most of us know what-who Dick was implying,allthough some do'nt. There for your reply to him should-could heve been done by PM.

It just seems like some are getting slamed when they take a contraversel subject that dose not hold the toe.

if promoters are trying to save the racers money, which i think is great, then here's my idea.
1. dont send me a 1099 at year end
2. lower the price at the pit gate
3. if you are going to restrict us to a couple of tires a night fine that saves money, but dont drop the purse thru out the field.

whats next a limit on how much we can spend on a hauler?
i have seen promoters take a good thing rework it refine it and ruin it, ideas come and go but remember so do the racers.
you can fool the fans, but not the players!

blast away

1... talk to the IRS about that... if the promoter doesn't do it, they get in legal trouble.
2... talk to "1-800-CALL SAM" about that. Lawsuits and insurance to cover same dictate pit prices
3.... I can't speak to that point. I know my track tries to pay deeper in the field and not be so top heavy in the pay.

I've seen both sides of the fence and neither is in an enviable position. Promoters are trying to get close to even and racers are trying to keep expenses from reaching six figures. There are some absolutely asinine rules out there but there are some good rules as well. We just finished a rule view to refine and eliminate as many blind spots as possible. Clearly spelled out rules eliminate the need to have questionable machines show up and tech challenges.

No blasting required nor taken.

Craig,

To imply that I went to the MCAR table with the idea of intimidating drivers is flat out a baseless mis statement or accusation of what the group intended.

I have spent the last 2 years as a volunteer for the racing community- UNPAID

I and the group that I worked with introduced more programs to benefit drivers than anyone in the history at Whittemore speedway. Driver benefit - not speedway.

I have been involved in racing since 1977.

To say I have not paid my dues or to judge my intent is baseless and un warrented.

MCAR was a dialog starting point. It failed for multiple reasons. Many people were consulted with including manufaturers and drivers. Not everybody got what they lobbied for the first year. It was a starting point. After the paperwork was no more than signed tracks imposed their own penalties for weight for different reasons. Tracks did not stick to the agreed rules package for 2007.- Whittemore did.

Tracks got involved in a promotional war down south. Whittemore did not.

We changed our rules back when we saw people were not going to work together.

MCAR failed as quickly as it began because of varying business decisons.

Whittemore speedway does not have a paid promotorer or president. We are advocates for drivers first. We are run by DRIVERS.

The reason I reacted is because I have not worked for the last 15 years to be lumped in to a category that is out for themselves or looking to pigeon hole anyone.

Dont paint me in with a group that I do not agree with.

I have difficulty coming to terms with human social behavior on the internet. There's seems to be a sense of impunity when posting to topics. On the larger national based sites I can understand the notion even though I disagree with the act. You'll never see 99% of the people you blatantly or unintentionally insult in person at those sites. What confounds me about MSTRC, I'm sure I've meant nearly every major poster on this forum. Most of the membership wouldn't talk to an individual in the way they express themselves on this forum.

I don't know if this started as a joke, blatant insult or spurring a heated discussion. The PM's have been sent without reply.

It would be greatly appreciated if everyone from here on out; would practice with integrity the necessary self discipline concerning the labeling and insulting of another members character without substantiating a due cause.

This is at will participation sport. No one is twisting arms to make people compete, watch or promote. Intimidation can only be generated from the individual's will.

Have a great day MSTRC

I merely pointed out that the promoters can't get along any better than us racers.I do think that including a rule like if you are suspended from one mcar track you will be suspended from all mcar tracks sounds like a threat to me. Let each track deal with it's own troubles. Most conflicts are a personality clash anyway and the troublemakers may be a different tracks tomorrow night to boot so why hurt another relationship(the next track you go to) and help carry on what happen last night 100 miles away? I have noticed that handing out blame is a very subjective affair,I watched a car drill another in the claim area after a race and noone notice but seen a bump on a sideways lapper get black flagged and not paid.Depends on who is calling the shots.I suggested a 3 driver panel assigned to make calls on a jury duty type thing long ago to help solve those problems.
I have had a promoter try to black ball me in the mspa series. Not one track refused me once. I know that deal well and that is where that statement comes from.
I like Mike and Joe and have no problems with them except bad and unenforced rules and have had that for years. So what? I still race there when I can. But lately only if I hacked up my car to make it fit the rules designed to keep the rest of the world out.I did not care for that mcar is good for you and we are out to help mod racing stuff. Joining the rest of the mods is what is best.
Making BIG issues of NON issue things is a problem. The head and coilover thing is a done deal in mod racing anywhere they race non junk mods. Both save money for us just like the quickchange does and heim joint steering and we had as many people whine about both for years and then forget about it. Just like the racing gloves and racing shoes thing years ago. If they checked nothing else they made sure of shoes and gloves and now many are wearing tennies and farm gloves again. A big deal for a flash then forgotten about. I can tell the difference when the new flash item comes along. Especially if it costs me time and money needlessly.
Racnparts, I did not intend to jerk your chain and I was not disrespectful to you but imposing penalities on cars legal everywhere else but your track cars is not helpful. What is the intention of a group who say to the mod world we will penalize you but you can come here. Welcome. Were you thinking of protecting"your" drivers from visiting USA mod drivers who may visit on off nights? I know drivers who wanted that also. There are many fast cars that may come if the purse goes up a little more to make the cost of fuel hurt a little less. But,most have coilovers and al heads anyway. I had too much power with al heads and too much power with iron heads and coilovers save me time and money. NON issues. I will list real issues if you like.
Run USA rules and forget messing with them. I probably will go to the ZOO on the visitor plan a few times but still hate tire impounding. Nothing is as good as a new tire. Soak em if ya got em. I'll take a new r-r and 3 used tires and feel ok about it.
Toss that center link out,it is a competitive advantage.Who's idea was that? How could it not be considered an advantage? I see the weight penalty was removed!!!But al heads can strap on 100#,no way that is fair. I say the link is not needed and it is more of an advantage than the heads. Just another local rule made to help a few. Let the locals have more stable,easier to bump,stiffer and expensive steering but strap ons for visitors. I don't like people behind me with a strap on.......
Anyway off to learn to do moguls at Mt Brighton.

Glad to see your visiting my "day" city, Dick.

When you are done down there, I would highly recommend you stop downtown and have some dinner at any one of the restaurants that front Main St. Can't go wrong there with any of them.

have a good day,

schinde

Take a note; I was on the board of trustes for two years in the late 70's for a race track. While on this board it was brought up to lift a tire compound rule. Even though this new rule would allow me to sell six times the tires I was selling,I voted it down while on board,because it would more than likely drive some out of the sport. After my term was up the board lifted the tire rule and by mid season over 1/2 the racers were gone.

This to show that in the attempt to make the racing even the racer was pushed out! Be carerfull what you ask for without looking for what will happen.