27 bids there at 660.00 now with 2 hr left auction number 190195164905

What Rich? The impenitrable fortress of a crate engine that will solve cheating in stock car racing? This has got to be a fake! There is no way to get these bolts! We've been assured by all sanctioning bodies that use them.

The bolts are available and they can be had for less than the price of 660.. But all rules still allow for a teardown, and if you think it is worth getting caught , in the long run its not. Again it all comes down to teching.

This does not look to be a cost effective way to avoid purchasing a torque wrench...

Cost effective no, but it is a shady way to go! I think crate engines have given tech in some instances the false sense that all is well in thier class. I dont think all santioning bodies fall into this category, im sure more than a few do.

i have two crates ready to run and another I AM building one of them are real the other two welllll lets see if there found!! any bets?

I'll take your bet!
Bring the one you are building.
Bring it to my shop.
I'll pay for your trip.
If I can't find it I'll give you $1000.00
if it's illegal i keep it.
Call me
Bob Varney(notice real name)
586-615-8763

Hi Bob. Most of these guys haven't seen the teching you guys undergo. I'd back your bet.

It's getting very interesting in here I don't run a crate class but read all over the internet how easy it is to cheat.... heres a chance to make a quick G if its that easy.

In some associations it may be easy to cheat. I would hazard a guess it would be caught by the ASA-LMS techs. Just my opinion based on what I have witnessed.

Rich,

I think Bob's asking you to put up, or shut up

I have heard that GM has stoped using the bolts. This now makes it nessasary to tec. the engines,which is a good thing.

Hell, Bob Ill pick the motor up, and bring it to you......

put up or shut up i dont think so i was not daring anyone to check a motor on a stand! bring it to your shop i would hope you could find it! one of them are legal one i just bought LOCAL was told it was in a few different cars last summer (you know who you are) one is not put together as of yet but ALL the motors will be in different cars this summer! find one its YOURS! as far as real names rich snover not hiding name just the motors!!!

Why not take it to him, video tape it!

I could use a grand, if your so confident, why wouldn't you?

on a stand knowing already it is illegal OK! a blind man with a wood leg and a kickstand should be able to find the goodies i just dont know what to say no wonder why some people like the crates!

Bob
I'll write the press release on it.

Here is your solution to the dilemma you are now in.

"I have two crates ready to run and another I AM building one of them are real the other two welllll lets see if there found!! any bets?"

Take all three motors to Bob's shop.

He'll pay for the gas.

Heck, he'll probably even buy you dinner.

Bring a few friends, (he'll probably even feed them) let each motor be set in a chassis, to simulate it being in a car.

Let them tech each motor as they normally do.

The rest of the bet stands as Bob stated.

Easy way to locally prove or disprove how easy it is to cheat with a crate motor. Easy way to prove to those who run in the ASA LMS series what it is that they are dealing with as a class.

Excellent idea by Bob, to demonstrate the sanctity of that series.

Who's next to weigh in.

have a good day,

schinde

I think Rich is trying to say he doesn't believe it will be caught where he races. Im sure ASA LMS would have a more complex tech. At least that is what I am reading. Before I get all of you excited....My comments about teching crates were not aimed at ASA, more toward the local programs who do not do a very complex tech.

You are correct on tech at some tracks, and what Rich is trying to point out.

This thread is specific to crate motor classes, and as such, it is controversial.

Bob is doing what he can to protect the integrity of the ASA LMA series.

This whole "cheating" matter with crates quite frankly is disgusting, to say the least.

To sell sealed bolts on ebay is disgusting to say the least.

This type of activity does not sit within the confines of Smokey Yunick's view of looking for the grey area in the rules and taking advantage of them.

This is deliberately doing somethign clearly against the rules. What can be more clear than the rules that have been written that say, without grey areas in any that I have read, "Thou Shalt Not Mess With This Engine."

I'm glad I'm not running in a sealed motor class, or even in a claimer class.

I think I'll stay right where I am for now.

Man, this can end up being a heated thread, easily.

have a good day,

schinde

I believe any division that chooses to enforce rules and takes the real time and energy it takes to properly tech cars will not come under scrutiny. I used to tech at Owosso with Dan Bailey (back in the Jane days.), and he would be sweating his butt off by mid show running from one pit to another, scaling cars before qualifying, and before features (thats how he found the famous 50lb neck brace.), not just the top five after the show. It is hard work to be a tech that is not considered lazy or percieved to show favoritizm. We teched every car in a class hard, and for the same items. It was great seeing dan on that little 50cc Honda running all over the pits. Big boy on a little bike!

smoky would PUKE if he had to use a crate motor! like it or not thats my opinion! he was a builder not a follower i am not saying this is not a good option for a traveling series with a up to date tech man like ASA has BUT one of these motors WERE already ran a FULL season at a local track and not found i did not own it then but i will admit the man i bought it from said it would not pass ASA~ but i am not on the ASA thread or racing ASA and as far as it gitting heated my cars are all ready for the season and I'm pretty bored so like the controversial stinkfist would say lets rock PS the motor that i am putting together will be all legal except I'm building it for HALF of what gm wants for it! i might add even with the costly bolts! the legal one will be in my car so good luck to all on finding the free motor! and as far as (gray areas thats just another way to say cheating) with out the nasty sound again my opinion

and another thing if your going to tech this good whats with the need to buy crates! why not hand built motors i will argue this point till i am blue in the face there is NO savings! just false sense of security! again my opinion a motor builder not a box buyer

True enough! If you show me a fabricator or engine builder who is not looking for "the grey area" and Ill show you a non winning racecar! We have always said "it doesnt say anything about that in the rules!". The mind of the racer is a big grey area.

Ya know Rich, this is already old and tired.

We get it!!! YOU do not like crate engines. YOU do not believe in them. YOU do not want them. That is fine, that is YOUR opinion. And we have heard and read about it endlessly for a while now.

No one is forcing you to run a crate. But also, no one is forcing you to post YOUR negativity about them either. Whether you like it or not, there are people who LOVE this concept. There are series that are 100% successful in running them, AND teching them. This may not be the case at the local short track level, but that doesn't mean it is the case everywhere.

You made your feelings known, time and time again. Can we get you to possibly leave it alone now? Continue to compete in the division of your choice where you can tinker and build your powerplant the way you see fit. And let the people who want to run crate engines run them, without you telling them they shouldn't.

Yes , it's to bad Owosso doesn't have a real tech like that anymore that really cares to keep everyone on the same playing field. I'm not downing any tech thier now it's just the two sets of rules is all andanother over ruling another isn't good. Once you go across the scales it's either a go or no go bottom line. My Thoughts Thanks

Stinkfist,

We all should just go to "Run What You Brung Class" but each class would have a weight restriction. Would this help ya?


Greg

ED WHAT are you talking about? i have NEVER told anyone that they should not run a crate! your right i dont like the idea ! but thats me my OPINION i am a engine builder if we replaced you with a computer generated voice WOULD you be happy i dont think so! but like i said i am not bashing people that run crates just dont be so scared of a outlaw motor! it works at Dixie! with a good tech man outlaws DONT win every night and another thing 5000.00 for a motor that i could build for 3500.00 whens the last time YOU paid for a motor!

You know whats realy great though? The crates have caused such an uproar that it has made all forms of racing rethink thier spending on engines. The Crates have offered an economical option. They are getting wieght breaks and advantages to create increased car counts to be competitive with those that still want to spend the long dollar. They are asking promotors to do what they have been asking, for along time . Create fair fields of cars with real teching. But then we still have a few hardcores , and they are looking more and more like idiots with thier shallow debates. We hate change , but racing is evolving into a whole new way of thinking. Like it or not.
(P.S. What do you think nascar is? Crate motors and spec cars!)

this is too much and to easy im out

snoverfac32,

I have never met you that I know of, don't care what your opinion is about crates, don't run one myself.

But your above responce and cartoon guy's is a very childish responce.

Dan Logan

Well Gonzo we are not quite crate motors yet, but it prolly aint far off

I kinda thought too but they are all available in the mstrc emoticon list.

As are these:

Hears an ansser The track buys a crate engine,then swaps with any car,if said driver dose not want to swap,see you next year. If swaped that engine is then swaped. At end of year the engine is raffled off.

snoverfac32, I dont know who you are...but I do have to say I am a little pissed off. It irritates me to know that you are in the posession of two illegal motors. Not necessarily that you have them, but the fact that now if I ever race against you, I have to wonder if you are running the Illegal or the legal motor. This class was developed for the fact that it does not take big money/built motor to win but driver skill and car set-up. And yes, like you said it seems like this topic is a like beating a dead horse....in this area there are plenty of guys who build motors, and build them well for not much money. Hell I argued this topic for a long time, *(wood probably remembers arguing with me on this exact argument about 2 years ago) My uncle built me a hell of a dodge motor...it was put on a dyno and had 587 hp with a 650 holley...but guess what, that motor had EVERY bit of 12,000 into it. FOR A LIMITED LATE MODEL....WHY?!?

Anyway, if you can not come and race with us legally, LIKE THE REST OF US at Auto City, I don't want to see you there.....if you can't take being beat by legal equipment dont race.

My two cents

Kyle

Kyle, how are you sure the everyone of "the rest of us" IS 100% legal EVERY night at AC any ways??????

This topic is allways the same no matter when it comes up. You your self say you have debated both sides and now see the light for crates. Why now?

As far as your $12,000 llm motor goes, at least it was legal to spend that if you wanted to. I know for a fact that it is not necessary to spend any where near that kinda money to compete, so if ya want to, go for it. Now with the crate, buy the time you buy one and than have it "freshend up" (and every one knows you have to), you are getting close to that kinda money any ways.

In my opinion, if you want crate motor racing to work well at a local leval, the magic is in 8 INCH TIRES. Those cars have way to much tire for the amount of hp you have. 8 inch tires will take away just about all the advantage a cheated up crate will have, so who gives a crap if the guy next to ya wants to wast his money cheating up his motor. The same goes for the llm, i did not need a $12,000 motor to compete, but i know for a fact if we were to change to a slm tire, i would be forced to step it up big time in the motor area.

Most importanly, Klye in no way are any of my questions to you, or the fact i used the $12,000 motor for example, personal digs or ment to be hostile towards you at all. I hope you have a great season of gay ass crate motor racing this year. LMAO did i just say crates are gay? LOL J/K

12000 is alot for that kind of power. My motor is 597 at the flywheel with four barrel for $5000, and its ready to go again this year all freshened for only 450.00. See ya's at the track with a few more pony's. PS. if I could afford a crate I would have one.

I bet, and i could be wrong, that those figures are from when it was in a modified, in modified form, which means with a roller cam and a carb in the 850cfm range. btw, what are your plans this year tater?

Tater, you do have to remember...unfortunately just b/c it says "Dodge"=big money stuff....haha, anyway that was with a 2 barrel 650. But anyway im not trying to start an argument...I was just saying that I do not want to have to worry about racing a "cheater" in a sealed class...thats all

now I'm not going to get a wink of sleep tonight and 12000 grand i have a 14 deg super motor 700+hp with only that in it! no wounder you frustrated PS the motor i bought was purchased off racingjunk.com he had two and both were raced at a local track before i owned one so think about that for a moment!

Bring it to the track, have it teched, and when you loose the crate motor for being illegal, don't come crying on this site "poor me" or start to bad talk the track for enforcing the rules. If you feel so confident about your purchase, then show up at an ASA race and have it tech. Why don't you take Bob up on his offer? All talk until you can back it up!!!!

Hope to see you at Auto city!
PS,
I do not hide behind a screen name....

I dont hide behind a screen name! if have read the other posts RICH SNOVER!!!! hence snoverfac32!! i DONT RACE ASA!!! nor do i care i said my car has a new legal motor tech it all you want like i said one of the motors i bought WAS ran at a local track last year it never won!! I DID NOT OWN IT THEN! I bought it off racingjunk end of story drop it there are cheater motors out there bottom line! I'm not saying one would pass ASA I DONT CARE! why should you??? if your so sure that it will be found??? relax have a coke take a deep breath better yet come pay me the 6000.00 grand i paid for the motor so you know were its at you can have it destroyed i will even sell ya the bolts i bought of ebay 600.00+ shipping then thy will be in good hands to! WHY are these things so readily available???? nobody else took them off the market!! matter fact i have the guys number i got the motor from he has another one for sale as for me I'm racing my car as a super you guys are to high strung good luck and yes i will be at auto city just like i have for the last 25+ years

Rich,

Something doesn't make sense here! You don't like ctates but, you pay $6,000 for a cheater and you buy bolts too! Hmmm, did you have plans?



Greg

Hmmmm

FIRST OFF I WOULD LIKE TO SAY I DONT KNOW OR HAVE NEVER MET RICH, AND I'M SOMEWHAT GUESSING ON PART OF THIS BY JUST READING HIS POSTS. BUT I HAVE READ HIS POSTS, AND I BELIEVE SOME OF YOU ARE SO ANGRY WITH HIM BECAUSE YOU HAVENT.

I BELIEVE THE POINT RICH IS TRYING TO QUESTION IS IF THE LOCAL, NON-ASA OR SUPERPRO SANCTIONED TRACKS HAVE THE PROPER PEOPLE AND EQUIPMENT TO PROPERLY TECH THESE ENGINES. IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT THIS ENGINE IN QUESTION HAS BEEN RAN LOCALLY WITHOUT QUESTION, SO, YOU DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION ON THAT.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO MR. VARNEY AND HIS OFFER, THAT IS JUST SILLY. TAKE AN ENGINE TO HIS HOUSE? THATS NOT THE POINT RICH WAS CHALLENGING. THE CHALLENGE, AS I SEE IT, IS TO A/C OR DIXIE TO CATCH THIS ENGINE. AND IF THEY DONT, WELL, SHAME ON THEM.

ANOTHER THING I THINK SOME OF YOU ARE FORGETTING IS THAT THESE BOLTS/SEALS WILL BE LEAVING THIS PROGRAM SOON. MARCH I BELIEVE WAS WHEN THEY PLANNED FOR? NOT AVAILABLE AFTER THAT. THEN WHAT? CRATE TEAMS WILL HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE TRACKS ARE PROPERLY TECHING THESE ENGINES.

AND, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE STARTED TO HATE THIS GUY JUST THROUGH READING HIS POSTS, YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY BE THANKING HIM IN A SENSE. BY BRINGING UP THIS DISCUSSION HE HAS BROUGHT THIS TO THE FRONTLINE OF ATTENTION, MADE MORE PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CHEATING WITH THESE ENGINES. YOU WILL ALL KEEP THIS IN THE BACK OF YOUR MINDS THIS SEASON AT YOUR TRACK IF YOU SHOULD START TO SEE SUB-PAR TECHING. IN THE LONG RUN THIS DISCUSION COULD ACTUALLY HELP YOUR CLASS.
BUT, IF YOU STILL DONT BELEIVE CRATES ARE BEING CHEATED LOCALLY, WELL YOUR JUST FOOLING YOURSELF.


JUST MY 2

AND, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I DONT ENDORSE CHEATING.

Ummm Im trying to figure out what it is you dont agree with here. I think you are missing my points I am in favor of a strong tech, but I like any other racer will take what I am given, and so will everyone else. If you do not take advantage of all you can you will not win. If you wish to debate a point please tell me what point it is you disagree with.

Yes, GM will stop doing seals in March. Superpro already has a seal program in the works with their own seals. Auto City is working on something probably similar to Superpro. I know in Superpro, they will be tightly controlled and I imagine Auto City will follow. Yes, they have been lax in tech but, in the case of the motor that Snoverface is talking about it really didn't do the owner any good. ASA's rule book and tech are the standard and people are learning and trying to follow their lead. I know Auto City is planning some big changes this year and we welcome anything they can bring forth. I know Mike R. from AC has been invited to Roger's in St Chas to see any crate motor put together so he can check them out before they are sealed in front of him with Superpro seals.

I believe in the crate motor system because our motor was ran for 4 years and was only refreshed with rings and bearings just last season. We have proven the point that you can win without having to go through your motor every year. We didn't mess with the timing, we changed our oil often, and we ran a 6500 chip and didn't need it. What really helped us was chassis setups that we learned from Mark Kortz, Tommy Maeir, Ted Johnson, and Paul Weisneiwski.

We all need to stop dissing eachothers classes. We are where we are at for a reason and will continue to do so as everyone should. We all need to support racing period, someday we might not have a place to play.

(Question for Rich) Why would you buy a cheater motor and seals when your not a crate fan?



Greg

THANK YOU bigcheater! that is just what I'm trying to point out! not cause a problem with ASA! LOCAL get it! stop sending me death threats! lol i dont even own a SUPERPRO i did buy a new body and one legal motor ITS ALL FOR SALE! you guys are to smart for me! my car will be raced as it was intended a OUTLAW SUPER again Bigcheater thanks for seeing the light no one else has! to most this was just a attack at crate racing it was not NOT! like i said before you still need to SUPER TECH these motors so what does it matter were it comes from? gm big corp. that all but pulled all there jobs out of michigan and sent them to Mexico or a local engine builder that lives and spends his money here! and what about the part stores? use your heads! keep repressing the local economy and there wont be any local racing! again my opinion and for the record i dont endorse cheating either! thats not what i am about a win is just a bonus