It was pretty obvious that Hendrick had the edge when it came to the COT, having won 9 of the 16 races it ran. While their dominance at the number one position did fad a bit toward the end of the season, the Hendrick cars where still clustered in the top at every COT race.

Now with the 2008 season getting under way and the shuffle of drivers that took place it has me wondering one thing. How much about what was being done to the cars do the drivers know or more specifically how much did Kyle Busch know? What was the “magic” setup or top secret gizmo or setting that made the Hendrick cars so consistently good? Was he involved enough with the team to know what was going on and have the background to understand what was being done and why? Or was he just there to drive and as long as they were giving him good cars that was all that mattered?

These are all questions to ponder, but ones we will never really know the answer to. However, it leads to one wonder just how big of a gain Kyle was to the Gibbs racing team? There was plenty of speculation early on as to rather Kyle was the right driver for Gibbs. Maybe the driver wasn’t the only motivation behind the signing.

The Daytona 500 is such a different race from the rest of the season, but it looks like there may be a Gibbs / Hendrick duel forming at the top. It will be interesting to watch these first few races and see if Gibbs / Hendrick duel at the top continues.

I'm not so sure that Kyle ever knew. But from what I've seen the Gibbs group is catching very quickly. They've got big big money helping them develop.. I expect to see less Hendrick dominance this season. my opinion

If Kyle's split with Hendrick was anything like the Vickers split, Kyle was kept in the dark and excluded from team meetings.

I remember hearing that, as soon as Hendrick knew Kyle was leaving he was leftout of all meetings and such stuff.

Not very. He has wadded up plenty of great racecars capable of winning if he used a little bit of patience. He was at the superpower team and couldn't be on good behavior. The Gibbs operation is no slouch by anymeans I think it may be #2 and after the start of this year you could make a good argument that they are #1. But I can see where some trouble could crop up. Right now things are cool he is working well with Tony. But I don't see Tony or Denny playing nice if it comes down to the last lap and we have seen how Kyle is on the last lap with a lapped car (come to think of it any lap with any car) I think the gloves will come off on a short track eventually. It'd be fun to see and good for ratings!

I don't really care, he should have swept all three races the past two weekends

My 1st driver wasn't performing as well as he needed for Hendrick, who now is 9th in points - Brian Vickers.
My 2nd favortie driver gets all the slamming, . Kyle Busch.

If you remember, Gibbs was pretty good last year with the COT and lost a few races due to failure with the Waterman system.

I doubt K. Busch knew a lot about what Hendrick had in those cars that made them fast.

Kyle Busch can take a racecar to its limit and beyond, and so far it has been successful for him. But the first time he gets a racecar that isn't capable of winning, he will wreck trying. A lot of people like that, and respect him for it. I just think its dumb.

Even Stewart learned that you can't win every race and sometimes you have to take what the car will give you and live with it. Maybe that will rub off a little on Busch.

Kyle Busch can pretty much get in any car and even if the car isn't up to par, he'll make it capable of winning. I seen him at Winchester started in the back and him and David Stremme went to the front so fast I, never thought it was possible.

This one is EASY "how smart is Kyle Bush" NOT VERY..

How unfair is that???

22 years old, running with the very BEST drivers in the world, and, beating them. Leaving what is supposed to the BEST team out there, and succeeding without them.

What?? Is it his last name?? Has Rubberhead's antics made everyone think that Kyle is the very same way??? I don't get why so many people are hating this kid. I will agree with the analysis that Kyle Hayden put out there that he probably still needs to learn how to bring a less than perfect car home in one piece, but other than that, what's the big problem with him?? I see potential up the ying yang with this kid, and most here, AND folks I talk to outside of this club, think he's nothing, a flash in the pan, a punk kid that has no talent.

Well, as I love to do, I disagree. I think he could win more races, AND championships than 90% of the drivers in NASCAR right now. So your not alone anymore Smilin Kyle C., I'm a Shrub fan now too. Hell, I might even buy a #18 T-shirt!!!!

Big Ed

I dont have a problem with Kyle except maybe the Toyota thing, and that doesnt bother me as much as it does some. I though it was interesting that Carl Edwards qualifies second to Kyle and he said "I dont know how he put down such a good lap I ran my car so hard I was shaking, and I wasn't even close." The kid is on the very edge and sometimes he falls off! *I seem to remember Jeff Gordon going through the same issues early in his career.

Ed that means he talented not nessecarliy smart

But Bob, that's what I don't get. Why is it that so many people perceive him as dumb, unintelligent?? I don't understand that at all. Any time I have heard him speak he doesn't come across as stupid. Maturity level may need some grooming, and I'm sure his IQ isn't way above average, but in my opinion anyways, he's far from stupid. I don't think anyone can just participate on this circuit without some level of intelligence.

If you don't care for someone, does that make them dumb???

And now I want to know, all the folks who have made the negative comments about Kyle Busch, I am very curious as to why. What made you feel this way? Why don't you care for him?? But most of all, why do you think he is NOT smart???

Disclaimer............. I am not a HUGE Kyle Busch fan, but I have nothing against him either. I just want to know why so many people do, that's all.

Ed maybe it is just a maturity thing,, and maybe the coach will help that along.. He seems to be able to take care of Smoke most of the time..I'm not sure that I would go as far as to say he left the best team in NASCAR either.. Maybe you are right, maybe it is his brother that clouds the issue. I understand your point about him running with the best in the country.. I have that same conversation with friends about Benson, or in the past Rick Wilson, and there are more,, people are always short to say they never win, but when you look at it in the fact that there are how many thousand weekend warrior's in the US, and they are part of 43 of the best.. Kind of like you straight "A" 4.0+ student going to a school of straight"A" student and finally figureing out somebody has to be second. But the more I think about it you are right in saying he is not stupid,slow ,whatever.. Maybe he just needs some help focusing and Gibbs I'm sure will help that. So maybe I was short,harsh.. Still not a big 18 fan now that JJ is gone,but I'll shut up and watch for a while.

I call it "Murray Syndrome" and here is the joke that goes with it.

Murray gets married when he is young but on the way to the reception, their car is hit and his new bride is killed. A few years later, Murray falls in love again and is married. They go out on a cruise and a freak rogue wave comes up and sweeps her off the ship, never to be seen again. Murray is broken hearted but a few years go by and once again, he finds love and is married. They charter a flight to Puerto Valarta, Mexico. Just as they are ready to land, the plane crashes. Murray's new wife is dead, as are most on the plane... Murray is dying and he knows it. He looks heavenward asks, "WHY GOD??? WHY?" All of a sudden, a big fiery hand appears in the sky with his index finger pointing directly at Murray and a big booming voice says, "I don't know Murray, there has always been something about you that just pisses me off!"

... and that sums up my thoughts about the Busch brothers.

Big Ed I change my mind,,, I'll side with Verwayne and Murray..

Well, I don't think MY God is the same as Verwayne & Murray's God, at least I hope not!!!!!

And I am looking for a little more detailed reasoning on this issue. I mean, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and who you like and don't like is your own feelings, I just want to understand, WHY.

And thanks Kevino5 for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

In a nut shell... I don't like the cocky style that both the Busch brothers have. It irritates the crap out of me.

Damn that is fuuuuuuuunnnny! There are so many people in our sport i feel that way about!

The only thing wrong with that theory is the Paul Menards of the sport. There are enough of them in the intermediate ranks of our sport to disprove that the talent is all at the top. It's been this way for a while. Even though i think Jeff Gordon is one of the best today, if you look back at his USAC days, yeah he won a ton, but he drove a Pepsi sponsored Beast with a Pontiac inline around a bunch of VW's with 75 less HP. Not sure its that impressive, but he made a character for himself that Nascar wanted. Money well spent if you look back on it, and daddy's like John Menard all across the country are in a hurry to kill our sport by trying to make junior the next Jeff Gordon. Hardly anyone gets a ride with talent even at the regional level, it's almost all money and sponsors.

I think thats the same thing that Kyle Busch. He's a character that's going to get a lot of air time for running his mouth, and that character pays the bills in the big time. Teams need drivers that can pay the bills, the talent to finish up from may not be as impressive as some think.

To answer Ed's question, I think his character is just one people don't like, cause it's similar to Kurt's, who people just don't like. That, and he's ugly.

Kyle can talk and make sense without studdering!

I don't know if the same can be said for Junior. He needs to work on his communication skills just a little bit... ahh what am I kidding, he needs to work on them A LOT!

Obviously he's smart enough to wheel a Nascar Sprint Cup car. 1 in roughly 50 drivers in the circuit.
Thats pretty good odds for a not to smart person driving a cup car!!!! Give me a break!!LOL
I ought to be the president then if being not to smart can get you a seat in a cup car.



I THINK THIS GUY CAN PLAINLY DRIVE THE WHEELS OFF A CUP CAR!!!

You guys are actually pushing for me to worship Kyle Busch!

Kyle,

I have to disagree with you on Jr.s speaking skills.

I think he does just fine, he is who he is and doesn't try to hide it.

Jr. is not a spokesman, and has been thrust into a spotlight that many would wither under. Given that, I've been rather impressed with how he has handled hmself, and the "fame" and attention that he has been given.

Jr. has never laid claim to be anything more than a young guy, enjoying his life, his friends and his job. I doubt he has ever had "professional" training in communications, nor do I think he should.

That is one of the most interesting things about Jr., he is not pretentious in any way, doesn't speak over his head, and is prone to foibles.

And, he handled his high profile issues with DEI quite well for a non-polished young fellow.

I'm sure Dale Sr. would be proud of his progeny.

Kyle is just young enough and cocky enough to speak his mind without too much fear of Nascar. tony has established himself enough to speak his mind about Nascar. Jeff should speak more about Nascar.

Jr. speaks when he has something he really wants to say. And does a good enough job of speaking when asked questions at an inopportune moment. It'a obvious he doesn't practice public speaking, which is fine with me.

I believe Tony is trying to assume the mantle of Dale Sr. in the Cup ranks, he is probably the only one right now who can.

And yes, I still miss Dale Sr.

have a good day,

schinde

WoW, have we touched a lot of areas with this topic and it has gotten really interesting in a short time.

I have been watching Kyle since the first year he hit Cup. I really liked him his first year, he was so nice and had so much potential it was fun to watch him develop. After the first year, with him in terms of his attitude and maturity, it was downhill. I personally think that was due to the way he was treated at Hendrick, obviously he was not happy there. Certainly his talent as a driver grew but his maturity and patience as a driver did not. It is easy to see already in this short time with Gibbs that his attitude is different and he is much happier. Apparently this was the right move for Kyle.

I think Kyle is a very talented driver, he is certainly not stupid, but not a genius either and is definitely immature as a person and a driver. I think the Coach will help him with that in the next couple of years. I think we will see his "nasty" side the first time he gets a car that they just can't seem to get tuned in to the track for him to stay running at the front of the pack. He will lash out at his crew and team and say some things he shouldn't and Coach will have to sit him down after and have a little chat to smooth things over and restore the team.
Actually I think that is going to happen at least 2 or 3 times this season but in the end Kyle will come out a more mature driver through it all.

Also, I would not consider Kyle to be ugly. He is more like that little homely looking puppy that grows on you after a while.
And I like his brother Kurt just fine, he is actually a pretty funny guy.

And I like Johnny Benson, he is my favorite truck driver.

Dale Jr may not be a great speaker but he is still himself so far and that is one of the things that is endearing about him. I hope that Hendrick or his sponsors don't 'encourage' him to take any public speaking training. I suspect that Jeff & Jimmie have both had some training, at times they appear to sound like Hendrick puppets, in my opinion.

For those that don't know me very well.
I like many of the drivers in all 3 series, a few that I don't like very much, and a couple that I can't stand. Most of the time I try to keep an open mind. There are a few that I don't think are ready to be driving at the levels they are and should go back down down for a while.
My #1 guy is Tony Stewart above all.
Then comes Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon. I really admire Kyle's talent as I do many other drivers.
I can't stand Jimmie Johnson. I liked him his first yr in cup but since then his ego has gotten so big I am not sure how he gets through the window to get in the car.
Can't stand Rick Hendrick, but I really like Chad Knaus.

I am not happy about Tony driving a Toyota, I would much rather they stayed with Chevy, but I am loyal to Tony and am sticking with him. I understand him and get why he stayed with Gibbs.

And lastly........I am not at all happy with the dictatorship that Nascar has become the past couple years or so and I still do not like the COT. So far the car has provided more boring races than not. The trucks and Nationwide have been much better races to watch than the cup series the past couple years. And they wonder why ticket sales are down for cup and up for the other 2 series. Dah!
Nascar needs new people at the top running things. France, Pemberton, Helton and the others have lost focus of what stock car racing is all about and certainly do not love the sport like the fans. New blood in there that truly loved the sport would make a big difference. People that could see more than just $$$$.

Ok.......nuff said. That is strictly my opinion on things.
I just calls 'em as I sees 'em!

he did manage to get himself fired by the best Owner in the business and right now it loks like tjat was good for him but lets see if dosen't eventually make two his success right know is making that head grow bigger and bigger

My opinion of the Busch brothers has nothing to do with their intelligence (or lack thereof) but rather that cocky, acting (???) like a horses backside when ever a camera is in on around them. I know some people think that this new 'edgy' "in your face" attitude is a good thing but I've coached 9 to 12 year old kids in Rocket football and they are picking it up... big time. For me, I see this kind of thing leading to that stupid Cheeto's commercial set where the animated tiger is urging some young person to do a malicious act... such as placing Cheeto's into the dryer load of white clothes of some one she was trying to hurry along so she could use the same dryer (although in the background, you could clearly see empty dryers). I no longer buy Cheeto's brand anything.

I'm old fashioned I guess. I think Al Kaline was a better man than Mickey Mantle. Mantle was never in Kaline's league. I'd rather see Stephen Leicht in that car than either of the Busch brothers. Stephen is a CLASS man and CLASS is something I've never seen from either Busch brother. Kurt was the first NASCAR champ to not make money from his championship... no one wanted his brash and 'in your face' attitude representing their company. Dang... I have to stop now or I'll really irritate others and myself but suffice to say is in my eyes, like it or not, when you are a public figure, it is incumbent on you to not act like a horses butt.

I have met Dale Jr. drank with him, he is just a regular guy, He has lots of toys, but I think he has squirreled away a fortune and continues to, his house is nice but not 10,000+ Sq ft. on Lake Norman that most Cup drivers have, He appreciates everything he has and does not talk down to anyone

Bruce... let me know how close I am. Judging from watching him give interviews on television, Jr seems very shy and almost like he feels 'unworthy' ... taking that word the way I mean it... of being where he finds himself. He does fine with friends but it is painfully obvious he doesn't feel comfortable at all talking to a television reporter. He looks away, looks down, or any place but the camera, even when he has had a good run.

Bruce,

Thanks for the insider's info on Jr. Somehow, I thought he was like that.

And Verwayne, I believe you are likely right in your thoughts regarding Jr.

He's walking in some mighty heavy boots.

have a good day,

schinde

V, your right, He does not do TV that well and You hit the nail on the head, In person he is just like any other guy he is fun to be around, His place is cool he has a couple tracks on his property, one is dirt the other he calls Little Bristol its really banked, I drove my truck around it, heres a picture of him standing by My 1969 Nova SS

Bruce, was that Bud or Miller?

Bud Light (but don't tell my boss)

exactly! They can all get cocky now and then but Kyle always seems to be that way. Kurt I will agree with you as well but he doesn't bother me all the time like Kyle does.

But is it really that important if all the fans or even most of the fans "like" a driver as a person?

I don't want to watch a bunch of nice guys drive around for miles, lap after lap, every weekend. I want some fire and ice. I want some attitude. I want some cockiness.

To me what is most important is if a driver is respected for his talent not if I like him as a person. It is how good he does the job he is being paid to do. Just like me. I am not being paid to be chummy chummy with everyone in the office and try to be the nicest person in the company. I am being paid to do my job and do it to the best of my ability that is priority and that is what I want to be respected for doing. I don't think they hired me to win a popularity contest and I don't think a driver is hired for that either.

Take Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, and Dale Jarrett, all very nice guys and all very good drivers, now multiply them and have 43 total drivers on the track all just like them racing together. I have a feeling there would be some pretty boring races to watch.

I like the mix of characters, keeps things more interesting.

There is a sincerity about Dale Jr that you just dont see in most of the other guys. I think he is also very funny when he wants to be. On another note Jr is the number one driver in the Hendrick camp this is interesting. Its funny how so many people really questioned his talent and he is showing that he is among the best. I really hope the Hendrick team gets thier poop in a group. They seem to be struggling this year.

"poop in a group"

Some interesting conversation to say the least. However, just to clarify I was not questioning Kyle’s personal intelligence. “How Smart is Kyle Busch” was an attention grabbing headline, besides it sounds better then “Do you think Kyle Busch pays attention to how his car is setup”.

What I was questioning or wondering is rather Kyle is the type of driver that just gets in the car and drives or one that is interested and understands what makes the car work or handle. If he is the second then just maybe it added to his value when Gibbs signed him. Even if he didn’t understand the why behind some of things they were doing at Hendrick, just the info that this is what is being done could open new areas of research for Gibbs. You can’t argue that the Gibbs COT program has really been on its game this year. Did they pick up a few secrets or just find something on their own? That’s something we on the outside will never know.

I think it has been brought up (and denied by NASCAR) that the Toyota teams are running 40 to 50 horse more than all of the other brands. Kind of like a few years ago Chevy submitted their standard heads for approval and Ford submitted a much more highly developed set of heads. Chevy was way behind the horse power curve until they reformatted their heads.

I think Kyle understands a fair amount about the car.

I think all the really good drivers understand quite a bit or at least what function all the things they can adjust during a race to make the car work better, perform. I think it is that understanding that helps to give them the feel for the car that makes them the great drivers they are. Part of the pieces of the puzzle of a great driver.
But I think most drivers today do not want to dwell too deeply into the mechanical end of things and want to leave the details up to the engine guys.
A really good driver at that level probably knows enough about the car as a whole to be able to talk with the crew and communicate well with the crew chief and to ask the right questions and listen when needed and just enough to know when to back away and let the mechanics do their jobs.

Could they build a racecar.......No.....or at least not one that would do well.

He let another slip through his hands Saturday. If he'd lose that balls to the walls attitude he could be great....and lose a little attitude (he's got plenty to go around losing some wouldn't make him a cookie cutter PR man). But for now he's shouldn't be called Shrub but Banzai!

Kurt comes off as phony as mikey dose with JR you get the real person

Ask Johnny Benson how smart Kyle is.

I agree. How about today when Johnny Benson got the boot? Maybe he was saving his brakes cause I think he used another truck to slow him down earlier when he did a kamikaze banzai entry into the corner. Oh well gives some of us something to comment about. I would get tired of picking up the tab for crushed cars that could have won or at least had a good finish. When he doesn't tear it or someone else up he does run well I'll give him that. Chill out a bit and he could win several races per year.

I agree,, he should be thankful that John is pretty mild mannored like his dad.. If I was him, I'd kick his ass and get it over with.. This so call "I'm just a racer,, I don't know how to run second,or what ever other crap he says" is BS.. Is isn't a racer at all.. A racer would understand that finishing 3rd,in one piece when you don't stand a chance in hell to win is better than 26th and junk.. I know it doesn't bother him,, hell he doesn't work on anything anyways,, just another spoiled brat that thinks everybody owe him his carreer.. If he drove for me,, I don't care how good people think he is, He be gone already..He is useless,, I can think of many more guys that are deserving of that 43rd best driver in the world spot.

Most of us with CARQUEST were not sorry to see Kyle leave Hendrick and have Casey as our driver.

Kyle would get a lot more press, but we wanted positive press not negative.

We would have liked to see Dale Jr, as our driver, but the extra estimated +40Mil, was hard to cough up.

The, Governor / Dan Logan

If there weren't names in this thread, I would SWEAR we were talking about Stan Boyd...

Wow thats out of left field! You picking on Stanley Mike? Actually Stan loves to be called Goober!

lol... Not picking on anyone, I just love to Hijack threads!!!



But seriously...they drive the same...

Just out of curiosity,

What is Stan doing these days?

Haven't seen/heard of him driving anywhere lately.

have a good day,

schinde

I agree. You have to learn to take the best spot you can get, because you can't win them all. Deal with the car you got and bring it back with the best finish you can and bring it back in a similar condition to when you started.