Full Version: power steering
i have a 73 monte for the led sleads at auto city..all stock parts for the power steering..but to me it seems a bit sloppy with alot of play in it...what can i do or change to it,to get a more stiffer with less play....more like a sports car or a z28 something like that.......when i turn the wheel i want the car to turn now..not have 5 inches of play in the wheel...help im lost
I had the same problem I ended up going to a steering box with a quicker ratio.
Sounds like you have a worn out front end. Try rebuilding the front end and adding a quick ratio steering box. You could also replace the rag joint coupler with a universal joint available in most circle track catalogs for $50 or so if your rules permit it. New bushings, polyurothane if possible, ball joints, tie rod ends, centerlink, and idler will go a long way towards tightening up a high mileage front end. Also check the colapsable section of the steering shaft for looseness, I had a neighbor that rebuilt his whole front end on his F150 and he still couldn't keep it in one lane because the column was worn out.
my front end is good pretty much all new parts,,could the steering box be bad and could i get a different one to bolt up to it..say from a sports car...its just a lot of slop in the wheel...its like driving a big ol luckury car..
the guy that raced the car before me drove with out power steering cuz he said he could feel the car and track better..thats a option but i dont want to start that way
Try running a smaller crankshaft or fan pulley were the P/S pump drives from. This will add feel as you will reduce the pump speed, thus less pressure. If your stock pump and drive pulley combo are about 1 to 1, you will want to try and get the crank pulley at least one third less in Dia.
If you can or want get a different box, try one from a Z28. These will be about 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Your old one is most likley 3 1/2 tuns.
The, Governor / Dan Logan
If you can or want get a different box, try one from a Z28. These will be about 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Your old one is most likley 3 1/2 tuns.
The, Governor / Dan Logan
I bought one from howe last year for my sportsman car
when i got it home it was for a right hand steer car, no bull.
they couldnt get me one in time to race that week so they gave me the stock number and i got it from circle auto parts in midland. I think its off of a camaro, but i'm not sure
the cast number on the housing is 7826692, idont think its the part # and i cant find it in my notes
you just need your pitman arm
hope that helps
when i got it home it was for a right hand steer car, no bull.
they couldnt get me one in time to race that week so they gave me the stock number and i got it from circle auto parts in midland. I think its off of a camaro, but i'm not sure
the cast number on the housing is 7826692, idont think its the part # and i cant find it in my notes
you just need your pitman arm
hope that helps
I just bought one.
The application was for a 1988 Camaro with Sport Steering option (they didn't all have it, and it doesn't have to be a z28)
The one I bought (junkyard) came with a real long pitman arm, but you'll use the one you have already. A junkyard one will probably be just fine depending on your budget.
That's all you need to do as long as everything is tight.
Your car has a slow ratio combined with a small valve in it. The small valve is like a torsion bar that twists open, so the small valve gives a LOT of assist without much input. That is why you have no feel.
The Camaro Sport box has a larger valve. So you will have quicker steering combined with much better feel.
Mike
The application was for a 1988 Camaro with Sport Steering option (they didn't all have it, and it doesn't have to be a z28)
The one I bought (junkyard) came with a real long pitman arm, but you'll use the one you have already. A junkyard one will probably be just fine depending on your budget.
That's all you need to do as long as everything is tight.
Your car has a slow ratio combined with a small valve in it. The small valve is like a torsion bar that twists open, so the small valve gives a LOT of assist without much input. That is why you have no feel.
The Camaro Sport box has a larger valve. So you will have quicker steering combined with much better feel.
Mike
thanks guy you answered alot of my questions
Get the hoses TOO! the fittings may be metric on the steering gear, your old 1970's hoses may not work (SAE fittings).
Maybe get The later modle pump too.
They do make adaper kits I think.
also 1980's firebird trans am, SS Monte, Grand national and 442 may have the faster steering stuff.
found this tech artical on the web,,,
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarti...ring/index.html
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofstr.htm
from web links...
I was able to convert my 1970 power steering pump to 1980 power steering pump hoses by replacing the fitting that screws into the pump body with the one from my 1980 power steering pump. They are very different pumps, if you have an old Olds 1970 and older compare it to a later 70's and up pump, they are compatible with this change. So, you will need the hoses from the year of the power steering box, and then you may need the fitting on the pump that matches those hoses, if there is a difference.
One style is flared, and the newer one is flared with an o-ring at the end. Done to reduce leaks.
Use the 82-92 Trans AM WS6 Box. Newest is best, has best road feel, and fast ratio was only avail on WS6 cars, not plain jane Trans AM/Z28's. Get 1992 Trans AM WS6, fits all 70-81 F-Car, does not have the short stops, and you get the best there ever was in the power steering boxes that GM did for high performance. And the WS6 box is supposed to be constant ratio, not variable ratio. So double goodies from the WS6 box, 1982-1992. The 78-81 WS6 Box was constant ratio, and did have the 12.7:1 ratio (2.25 turns lock to lock, that is full left to full right boys and girls....) (Most are 3 turns lock to lock, 15.7:1 or so ratio) and the ratio from middle to sides remains constant, almost ALL cars do NOT have constant ratio, they have a variable ratio that does not turn much at the middle, but when you get past 1/2 turn left or right, it gets progressively faster for easier maneuvering like parallel parking, etc. Only WS6 Trans AM, Corvette and special cars got the constant ratio.
Nearly ALL GM Chassis can use the 1982-1992 PS Box, so if you are going to waste any money on one, get the best, don't waste money on the older 2 gen F car box.
F-body cars (Camaro's and Firebirds) have a faster steering-ratio than our stock A-bodies, but not all of them have the 12.7:1 ratio, and these steering-gearboxes can cause problems when swapped into A-bodies; all of them were designed to use a longer steering-arm, so when swapped into an A-body with the shorter steering-arm the tires will no longer turn as far to either side, which will increase your minimum turning radius, making U-turns a thing of the past. The longer F-body steering-arm and idler-arm cannot be used on A-bodies as the steering centre-link will hit the frame crossmember. In addition some of these cars used a different type of fitting for the power-steering hoses (using an o-ring), so you either have to change your hoses and power-steering pump, or change the hose fittings in the steering-gear. Lee Manufacturing makes adaptors that convert the newer fittings to accept the older hose-ends. Camaro's and Firebirds with factory handling packages are most likely to have the 12.7:1 ratio gear, these include Z-28 Camaros and Trans Am's and WS6 Firebirds. One listee said that the 1992 WS6 Trans Am steering gear was the best of the factory ones. This one has both the new hose-fittings and the limited turning-radius, so be warned. It is available from AutoZone for about $200 for a rebuilt one, be sure to specify WS6 or high-performance suspension option to get the fast-ratio box.
The internals from these fast-ratio gearboxes can be swapped into the steering gear from your car, converting it to fast-ratio steering. This looks like a fairly complex job. For some information on gearbox swaps go to Jim's Muscle Car Page http://members.home.net/jimmy4 and follow the link for Steering Gear Swap Info. The end cap on the steering gear controls the the internal stops that limit total travel of the steering arm, so by using your stock steering gear endcap and housing along with the fast-ratio internals your turning radius will be the same as before.
While these late model steering boxes will bolt into the chassis, two modifications in the area of connecting them up are needed. You need a hybrid coupler (the "rag" or fabric connecting joint) from a '79 to '84 Chevy pickup truck to adapt the older design steering column to the new design steering box, and you need to change the way the power steering fluid connections are made. Adapters to convert the metric fluid connection lines to earlier standard fittings are available. The newer boxes use an o-ringed metric end while the older boxes use the common 3/8" flare end. NAPA sells the required adapters. They are:
Weatherhead #1445: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 14x1.5
Weatherhead #1446: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 16x1.5
Weatherhead #1447: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 18x1.5
Since the boxes varied slightly from model to model versus the fluid line connections, you should order all three. Take your "new" steering box (or the newer lines for comparison) with you when you go to the parts store. They might even let you pick the 2 you need and not buy the unneeded adapter.
The GM part number for _brand new_ boxes of the latest, fastest ratio is 7839897. According to Drew Koba, Olds parts guru and OCF Chapter Representative, these boxes are still available. They list for $677 (ouch). But Drew has recently convinced his employer (Fountain Olds) to sell GM parts to club members at a substantial discount.
As noted above, to use the late box with early steering columns, the Chevy pickup truck coupler is needed and its GM part number is 7826542 ($68.25 list, again a discount is available). I would strongly suggest using a new coupler rather than a used one when changing your steering box.
Drews numbers at Fountain are: (407)888-1455 and 800-456-8701. Remember, all OCF members get discounts on parts purchased through Drew. And, if it exists, Drew can get it!
Results:
For the record, I performed the change to a '70 steering box and wheel on my '67 Cutlass 442. The improvement is phenomenal. You may see me checking the GM section at the local "Pick 'n' Pull" yard myself looking for that super quick box.
Ken Crocie's used a 84 Trans Am steering box that has 2.5 turns lock to lock on his 64 GTO. There is supposedly a problem with internal stops in the F body box so that you won't be able to turn the wheels all the way and have a wide turning circle. It looks like you can simply take the box apart and reuse part of your original box to get rid of the stops. The stops are in the end plate which faces forward and down when the box is in the car (the round piece). The reason for all this is that the F bodies have a longer (so I've heard) pittman arm which you can't use in an A body since the center link would be moved rearward.
[ Thanks to John Carri, Thomas Martin, Kyle Tilbe, Todd Daenzer, Mike Bloomer, Bob Handren, Scott Woodworth, Tom Millard, Joe Padavano for this information. ]
Maybe get The later modle pump too.
They do make adaper kits I think.
also 1980's firebird trans am, SS Monte, Grand national and 442 may have the faster steering stuff.
found this tech artical on the web,,,
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarti...ring/index.html
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofstr.htm
from web links...
I was able to convert my 1970 power steering pump to 1980 power steering pump hoses by replacing the fitting that screws into the pump body with the one from my 1980 power steering pump. They are very different pumps, if you have an old Olds 1970 and older compare it to a later 70's and up pump, they are compatible with this change. So, you will need the hoses from the year of the power steering box, and then you may need the fitting on the pump that matches those hoses, if there is a difference.
One style is flared, and the newer one is flared with an o-ring at the end. Done to reduce leaks.
Use the 82-92 Trans AM WS6 Box. Newest is best, has best road feel, and fast ratio was only avail on WS6 cars, not plain jane Trans AM/Z28's. Get 1992 Trans AM WS6, fits all 70-81 F-Car, does not have the short stops, and you get the best there ever was in the power steering boxes that GM did for high performance. And the WS6 box is supposed to be constant ratio, not variable ratio. So double goodies from the WS6 box, 1982-1992. The 78-81 WS6 Box was constant ratio, and did have the 12.7:1 ratio (2.25 turns lock to lock, that is full left to full right boys and girls....) (Most are 3 turns lock to lock, 15.7:1 or so ratio) and the ratio from middle to sides remains constant, almost ALL cars do NOT have constant ratio, they have a variable ratio that does not turn much at the middle, but when you get past 1/2 turn left or right, it gets progressively faster for easier maneuvering like parallel parking, etc. Only WS6 Trans AM, Corvette and special cars got the constant ratio.
Nearly ALL GM Chassis can use the 1982-1992 PS Box, so if you are going to waste any money on one, get the best, don't waste money on the older 2 gen F car box.
F-body cars (Camaro's and Firebirds) have a faster steering-ratio than our stock A-bodies, but not all of them have the 12.7:1 ratio, and these steering-gearboxes can cause problems when swapped into A-bodies; all of them were designed to use a longer steering-arm, so when swapped into an A-body with the shorter steering-arm the tires will no longer turn as far to either side, which will increase your minimum turning radius, making U-turns a thing of the past. The longer F-body steering-arm and idler-arm cannot be used on A-bodies as the steering centre-link will hit the frame crossmember. In addition some of these cars used a different type of fitting for the power-steering hoses (using an o-ring), so you either have to change your hoses and power-steering pump, or change the hose fittings in the steering-gear. Lee Manufacturing makes adaptors that convert the newer fittings to accept the older hose-ends. Camaro's and Firebirds with factory handling packages are most likely to have the 12.7:1 ratio gear, these include Z-28 Camaros and Trans Am's and WS6 Firebirds. One listee said that the 1992 WS6 Trans Am steering gear was the best of the factory ones. This one has both the new hose-fittings and the limited turning-radius, so be warned. It is available from AutoZone for about $200 for a rebuilt one, be sure to specify WS6 or high-performance suspension option to get the fast-ratio box.
The internals from these fast-ratio gearboxes can be swapped into the steering gear from your car, converting it to fast-ratio steering. This looks like a fairly complex job. For some information on gearbox swaps go to Jim's Muscle Car Page http://members.home.net/jimmy4 and follow the link for Steering Gear Swap Info. The end cap on the steering gear controls the the internal stops that limit total travel of the steering arm, so by using your stock steering gear endcap and housing along with the fast-ratio internals your turning radius will be the same as before.
While these late model steering boxes will bolt into the chassis, two modifications in the area of connecting them up are needed. You need a hybrid coupler (the "rag" or fabric connecting joint) from a '79 to '84 Chevy pickup truck to adapt the older design steering column to the new design steering box, and you need to change the way the power steering fluid connections are made. Adapters to convert the metric fluid connection lines to earlier standard fittings are available. The newer boxes use an o-ringed metric end while the older boxes use the common 3/8" flare end. NAPA sells the required adapters. They are:
Weatherhead #1445: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 14x1.5
Weatherhead #1446: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 16x1.5
Weatherhead #1447: 3/8" is 5/8 18 - 18x1.5
Since the boxes varied slightly from model to model versus the fluid line connections, you should order all three. Take your "new" steering box (or the newer lines for comparison) with you when you go to the parts store. They might even let you pick the 2 you need and not buy the unneeded adapter.
The GM part number for _brand new_ boxes of the latest, fastest ratio is 7839897. According to Drew Koba, Olds parts guru and OCF Chapter Representative, these boxes are still available. They list for $677 (ouch). But Drew has recently convinced his employer (Fountain Olds) to sell GM parts to club members at a substantial discount.
As noted above, to use the late box with early steering columns, the Chevy pickup truck coupler is needed and its GM part number is 7826542 ($68.25 list, again a discount is available). I would strongly suggest using a new coupler rather than a used one when changing your steering box.
Drews numbers at Fountain are: (407)888-1455 and 800-456-8701. Remember, all OCF members get discounts on parts purchased through Drew. And, if it exists, Drew can get it!
Results:
For the record, I performed the change to a '70 steering box and wheel on my '67 Cutlass 442. The improvement is phenomenal. You may see me checking the GM section at the local "Pick 'n' Pull" yard myself looking for that super quick box.
Ken Crocie's used a 84 Trans Am steering box that has 2.5 turns lock to lock on his 64 GTO. There is supposedly a problem with internal stops in the F body box so that you won't be able to turn the wheels all the way and have a wide turning circle. It looks like you can simply take the box apart and reuse part of your original box to get rid of the stops. The stops are in the end plate which faces forward and down when the box is in the car (the round piece). The reason for all this is that the F bodies have a longer (so I've heard) pittman arm which you can't use in an A body since the center link would be moved rearward.
[ Thanks to John Carri, Thomas Martin, Kyle Tilbe, Todd Daenzer, Mike Bloomer, Bob Handren, Scott Woodworth, Tom Millard, Joe Padavano for this information. ]
If there is a lot of play in the steering check the idler arm. That is a main cause of most slop in the wheel.
i never ran power steering i hate it i ran alot better with out it
QUOTE (governor @ Apr 21 2008, 05:53 PM) 
Try running a smaller crankshaft or fan pulley were the P/S pump drives from. This will add feel as you will reduce the pump speed, thus less pressure. If your stock pump and drive pulley combo are about 1 to 1, you will want to try and get the crank pulley at least one third less in Dia.
If you can or want get a different box, try one from a Z28. These will be about 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Your old one is most likley 3 1/2 tuns.
The, Governor / Dan Logan
If you can or want get a different box, try one from a Z28. These will be about 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Your old one is most likley 3 1/2 tuns.
The, Governor / Dan Logan
I was gonna suggest the Z-28 box also!
QUOTE (2fast4u @ Apr 27 2008, 08:11 PM)
i never ran power steering i hate it i ran alot better with out it
Tried that too.....going to power steering next year though. I've never ran power steering but I think it's going to help with a few things. Like when you get sideways it helps you recover a bit faster!
i spun out alot lol with it
thanks guys...im taking all this in..and figuring my options.....im going to go back threw everything just to make sure
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