Previously got put in wall, strung car found right side was pushed back 1/2, lower control arm was back an aditional 1". Didnot have time to straighten,reset rear square with string, lower control arm moves freely, reset caster, camber, bumpsteer.Right side wheel-base is 2" shorter than left side.! The car works as good or better than before! Is this logical? Or should the car work that much better when it is all straightened? Puzzled mod driver! Measured my old street stock which my son drives now, has never been bent, and has about a 40 percent winning percentage over the cars life, it is also 2" shorter on right than the left!

how are you squaring the car?

dirt or tar?

Some car builders used to build them that way. If it works leave it alone.

Gov

My old car started setting fast time after it got bent like that... Leave it alone like the Gov says...

Mike

A Legends is set up that way some times. But we also don't have sway bars.

A hobby stock we had back in the 80's got bent the opposite, shorter left wb, and set fast time the next week.

Using string and jackstands 4 corners measuring off left frame rail and right frame rail same width front and back ,squaring all 4 corners measuring diagonal to check .String to rear end same both rear tires front and back measure same off string. Right side frame points measure back .

Doesn't sound like a method error. As long as they can all point in the same direction you should be ok. I would check the toe with the wheels turned if one of the front corners is pushed back. Just to see what its doing.

I would think it would affect caster/camber change and toe on turns if anything. If the rear was crooked it would drive funny if it was out of line 1 or 2 inches.

I just got a new 3d alignment system and it measures everything and give a graphic picture. It does bump steer, ackerman to the 1/1000 degree. It even will print out bump steer and ackerman change graphs.

We had Larry Wallaces car on it all day Sunday so now I have championship car detailed specs for sale. Down to the last detail. He said he didn't want to see his charts on the internet so I will mail em to the highest bidder.
Or we can do any car for a slight fee. This is the most and most accurate info you have ever seen.

My wheel base is one inch off also and I will see if it is the ford lower arm that does it later.
I did find that front end geometry affects the thrust line. Getting the front right will change power off the corner thrust line???? So says the machine. Dead nuts accurate.....

That has got to beat the hell out of yarn....lol

It seems like I read something about that (thrust line) deal. Didn't quite grab ahold of it yet. That's gotta be handy for a race car. I'm curious how well that works. Maybe I'll have to hook up with my sponsor and see about some time on the alignment rack. Does your use all the lazers or mirrors or what? How long does it take to set up for it?


Oh and I'll start the bidding at $1.50..... lol

I am not 100% sure, but I think that Windpushers used to build their modifieds with the Right side 1" shorter right off the jig. Those chassis are always fast.

what do you charge to put a racecar up there? I got some ideas for other good uses.

I asked Sam many times why my car is not square. I have the ford lower on and I will change it to Impala and recheck it. It is sweet to be able to set thrust line to exact tolerances. It does ackerman in minute detail. You can check it every 2* or 5* or 10* but it is a lot of holding the wheel in exact positions so we used the 5*. It gives a toe change on a graphic scale up and down. We found ackerman problems in a few seconds and a sweep of the wheel. When r-f front says 20* exactly and l-f says 18* I guess it won't turn well with the l-f lolygaggin around doing no work. Max turn is measured. I will post a few all wheel screens for those interested to check out. Has camber change,caster change and centers the box and center link then gets toe and other readings centered on thrust line and other wheels not to the floor or any planar surface. That is the new standard now days. After it finds the axis and plane of each spindle it aligns them to the thrust line not the floor. No need to be level or flat or any of the old fashioned stuff.

Any one is welcome to help make a payment. Basic all wheel sheet will be around $60. That will tell you what you HAVE EXACTLY. I will put a copy up soon. Larry says I can't sell his info. Look for him to be faster this week.

I am learning this new system, it's gotta be similar to a global positioning syatem for your wheels. It has targets on the wheels not sensors,reflective sensors that are indestructable like a stop sign and do not get out of calibration cause there is no plane to get out of calibration with. It makes your spindle centers the center of info,all four. It is amazing along with the price.

So if you think you know where your wheels are I can prove or disprove it. I measures wheel base to 1/000 th of a degree or inch or mm. Also cross measures the corners so watch out shabby body and frame shops cause I will catch you now.

I centered steeing wheels first time with the easy toe wizard. I will find a way to put my digital scales under the turn plates to figure weight transfere caused by caster an dother things.

I can save data and make a model spec and when I go back to a track I can set up exactly for it again. So when I tell it to feed in my spec it shows me meters with red and green screen and I turn rods until they read green and it's set to them specs just like doing grandma's station wagon. Without having to watch any numbers just the adjust screen. That is the best thing for travelers,repeatable setup to the 1/ooo th of a degree or inch.

Make your appointment soon.

I forget scrubb radius,caster trail and it will tell you the size of each tire. Electronic stagger,imagine that? All on the basic all wheel screen. Wheel track and offset from each other also. Measuring ackerman is the hardest thing but is a 30 second deal now......

Dick,
I know guys who use a machine similar to what you are talking about and they ALWAYS do well. If I was racing and having handling problems, I'd be at your door tomorrow.

Dick,

You haven't mentioned this yet, but have you also tried checking all of your measurements while simulating going into and out of a turn? In other words, have you pulled down on the RF and lifted up on the LR to simulate going in with the front wheels turned about what you think they should be? And then have you checked with the LF lifted up a bit and the RR pulled down a bit to simulate coming out of a turn, with the front wheels turned in about three different directions to simulate loose off or pushing off a corner?

I can see where this would be very handy for checking your setup. So far, it sounds like you've only checked your setup for the straightaway. Or maybe you're not telling us everything?

Anyway, nice stuff you got there.

-Maurice

We did simulated entry w/braking, turn and power off the corner, around the apex. We spent most of the day on Wallaces car. We checked most every angle we thought we could use info from. Pulled it down to the shock indicators,jacked corners up. Whatever position is needed...

Is this a Snap-On Machine? If so what model is it? I have done a very extensive(Six Sigma) study on a Snap-On Machine and have a interesting document you will want to read!


A.J.

No it's really a Jim Bean but snappy sells em. Every thing we have done is dead on with wheel straight and rolls straight. The platinum software/sensors package is what I have. The cameras move when you move the hoist so it is a work saver.

Send me any literature you have. I like to learn.

When we purchased a new modified a few years ago it was fast, but never was easy to drive. The car darted, and was not consistant. Tire temps were not consistant, but we has 2 other cars and just parked the car. Last year we decided to look thoroughly at this car. What we found was that the right side wheelbase was about an inch shorter than the left. The rear end was straight and squared in the car. We repositioned the right lower control arm and the car now is exceptionally fast.

This year we purchased a set of plates from UB Machine. They bolt on the hubs and the car sits on them. We make all our measurements and adjustments based on these plates. Unlike tires, or inconsistant wheels, these are precise.

We may add a multi-post shaker to our shop this year. We also set up and dyno shocks for local teams. While our cars take up most of our time, we may start setting up cars for other racers over the winter.


My point---very often racers outsmart themselves. We set our tow in under precise conditions at the shop, and then reset it at the track.

Good racing

The Seat Guy

We can do em with the wheel hanging with no tires on them. We don't rely on equal tire size, pressure or any variables. We measure the axis the wheel is bolted to not where the tire forces it to be.

Not rich enough to have a million dollar shaker,if I was I would keep the cash and move away from Michigan.

Hey Dick some of the guys have said some Windpusher cars were shorter on the right, is Larrys, just courious?

No his was straight. I am working on mine. It sure is a learning experience to be able to accurately measure things.