I am looking for some intelligent conversation here on what YOU think Spartan needs to do to improve the car count, and overall quality of our Figure 8 races on Sunday. The car counts have been dropping the last couple years, and to be honest, Jim is having reservations on the future of this class. We pay $750 to the winner, and pretty well throughout the field, better than any other track that races them regularly.

I think that we may need to get the rules to accomodate more of a Pure/Leadslad type of Figure 8 car, as opposed to what we are doing now. But I am far from an expert. I'd love to hear the opinions of all the great people here. I'd like to try to keep it civil, not a bash fest, but more of an open forum for some ideas for the future to try and present to Jim for his considerations, and to keep this class of racing alive. I don't want to see this type of racing NOT be part of our Sunday shows.

Thoughts?????

If the rules were more for pure stocks or lead sleds alot more people would have ran the figure 8 sunday. Maybe change the tire rule and pure stocks might be competitive but those cars ar epretty fast

not to mention dangerous, If a pure stock took a hit from one of those cars it would be catastrophic

No doubt those cars are nuts. I would very much agree with your assesment Ed. Youd have alot more AC/Dixie guys run both on the nights they were there for invites. If your tire rules were the same as ours maybe youd see a few more of us on Fridays that AC is off. Did you guys ever look into that. I know some guys were allowed to run but told to not have them on the next visit.

I know when they dropped from a $1000 to win they lost cars I know they still pay good not saying that there are guys that got a little upset when they only have 3 on the schedule this I will say if you made them purestocks you might get a couple more But the same guys will just make there cars more like pures and still win I know they tore up 4 cars at AC this week People wont keep wrecking cars that they race every week I raced them for years when we had 20 cars Ed remembers those days I But there were 30 street stocks in the pits and 35 mods 25 supers Those days are gone no real answer How many run at Dixie and AC Lets face it racing is hard enough with junking you car Spartan is real tight down those straights then you have get in that corner with 2 guys that wont liftyou are tear cars up thats why the guys winning now Win!!!!!!

Ed, i have nothing against the current figure 8 drivers, however when paul quit having the "motor city madmen" i know of several people who have not been back.

If Jim could maybe bring them back for at least one show and see if it makes a difference. I know the flat rock boys enjoyed coming up, and they used to have around 20 or so cars.

Who did you have to ask how to spell that word.

MFing spell checks in the house!

the cars that run the fig-8 are based on the old factory stocks that no longer run at spartan since they have become sportsmans. obviously as time goes on youre not going to get those who are improving their cars to become sportsmans to participate in the fig8. both ac, and dixie run purestocks now, not sportsmans for fig8, and have nice car counts, so with the chance they can run the circle and 8 you may pull more of them down there. the ones that dominate that division now are just war machines, they are designed for destruction, so a purestock stands no chance against them in an intersection.

what happened to the pony fig 8? those were good shows too...

Mike, i think that was just friendly fire


Well Id race the figure 8, but no one will let me drive their car (not since the last one I drove anyways ) lol.

Having a set of rules on the web site might help. I have read them and the cars racing dont fit the listed sportsman rules.

Fair enough Ed, here is my opine.

Don't limit the Figure 8's to Sunday's only, and don't make the 8's a special show type event, i.e., the Sunday shows. Not sure how to fill the rest of the Sunday show, but the 8's might not necessarily be the ticket right now, too few and far between to keep fan attention/develop that 'my guy against your guy" fan interest. (harkening back to the day's of the "Go, Little Richard, go!" cheers from the stands when Simmons was the "guy" in the 8 competition)

Have one or two Figure eight shows with the clearly build for figure eight war horses on the Sunday slate, those that are reinforced, powered and build specially for that type of racing, and have them compete only against similar cars. A two time figure eight like that around the Fourth, and then mid-August around MIS time might draw those east side madmen to the track, and the fans. If someone has an old street stock that they want to figure eight with, then they can opt to run this show, knowing what they are running with.

For the regular night shows, every other week, bring the return of the pony figure eights. Those were entertaining and provided for some great 8 racing, especially when Silverfox was running. Who knows, he might return for them.

Once every two weeks, have a pure stock 8 race, with the regular pures that run both tracks. Nothing special allowed, just let the drivers reset their chassis to run the eight, and turn 'em loose. FWD and RWD, just let 'em run. No old streeters, just the pures only.

Alternate the pure 8 and the pony 8, so there is a figure eight race to end each night's worth of racing, for the nights when the pures or ponies are running the 8, let them run their feature first to give them time to reset their cars.

These are ideas, now, I don't know how to fund the purses, that's Jim's headache, but perhaps with the lure of 8 racing each night? (fans backside's trackside?)

The bigger question would be, how many drivers of pures and ponies would consider running this type of a schedule?

Just random Friday morning thoughts on this question.

have a good day,

schinde

Definately Friendly Fire! Chad might not be the kind of person you say that stuff to in a serious manner.

Matt that is an excellent idea. Making sure the guys have a chance to change tires and camber is key. Some will just change tires others will do both. Nick Johnston would probably adjust his brake bias.

youll never find me in a fig8 race, and with the new car im allowed a brake adjuster... smarta**!

hehehehe I knew that wouldnt be long in coming!

You guys just don't know how much fun figure 8 racing can be! I'm not sure about A/C because I haven't seen it yet but I can tell you from experience that Spartan is from the spectator side and the drivers side the most fun to run or watch..Dixie is the easier of the two to drive but only because of the size, but by the same token the wrecks seem to be worse at Dixie..I don't think Spartan has had any tires in the stands yet have they Ed? go out and run a few laps at the back and try it, or run a few laps at the front with Ray Derminer on one side and 24 cars coming behind you!! What a blast!..I wouldn't try it in a camaro though..but it is definitly worth trying...rj

Honestly, i have heard from a TON of pony stock guys, what they pay for them to go out and take a chance at wrecking their car, it just isnt worth it. Maybe the first couple guys get paid ok, but then after that the rest of the guys have no incentive.

again, this is just for the ponies.

When I started this thread, I was hoping for some kind of a solution to our problem. I think Jim has made a good decision to get the Figure 8's back where they belong.

Below is the e-mail Jim sent me this morning, I now share it with everyone here.


Hello Ed, I have prepared the letters to our (5) figure 8 drivers letting them know that we will be switching from the Sportsman F-8 rules to the Pure Stock F-8 rules effective for the June 22nd event and for the remainder of the year. The car counts are not likely to increase the way things are now so we really have no choice but to make the change. Hopefully the counts will show a substantial improvement.

We will be combining a Pony F-8 with the Pure F-8 so we will have two F-8's for the spectators for the same price. This will also give an opportunity for some of our Slugfest drivers to double their pay with out pulling to the track again or buying more pit passes. They can enter both their regular event along with the F-8.

I will post the pay early next week on the Spartan site. We will also be increasing the start money for the Slugfest. The Slugfest has been successful and we can afford to help off set some of the cost to pull to Spartan on the Slugfest Sundays.

Thanks.

Ed I think this is the right move for Spartan. You have to consider car counts in everything. I know that many of the Fig 8 drivers at AC/Dixie dont race the Fig8 due to the fact that the Sartan cars are so beefy and downright fast. Chad told me that in 2 laps he was already in the intersection. This is a guy who wins regularly at Dixie and now AC. I will try to have tires to run the fig 8 that night. If my motor is paid for I will be there 4 sure. Im pretty stoked about running Spartan anyway.

Personally to get more cars out there, its a good idea. But the thought process on this is not good. Your only running 3 figure 8 races this season to begin with, you have already ran 1 race and only have 2 left. Now your going to change the rules? Why not wait until the season is over. Heck you only got 2 more races. So these 5 cars you are making them change thier cars to pure stocks...now? How can you expect them to do that so soon?
I think its good your changing the rules to get more cars, but the timing is BAD! imho

I was not at the last race, so I dont know how many cars were there. Im going by the fact that there supposedly were so few cars, and all the races I did see, there were really only two cars that could win if they didnt break. I have to agree with you that it is atough deal for the few guys who had those tanks with rocket power, but those cars are the reason nobody else would run. At least if you ask the guys who I went with last year. I know Jim probably didnt want to make this decision, but more likely felt like he had to for the benefit of the show. You cant hardly expect a track to pay 750 to win when only a hand full of cars race and fewer are really competetive. I am sorry for Rick, Jeff and the other cars who are built specifically for these races, but over all I see this being the best decision for the track. Also my humble opinion.

It's 6 and 5

There are like 2 or 3 "figure 8 cars" They are TANKS you can tell just by looking at them.

I know at least one of those drivers, last races feature winner, also has a Pure stock. All he has to do is change a few settings around to run both.

By running actual pure stocks and not purpose built fig 8 cars there will probably be ALOT less smashing into each other. It's kinda exciting for the fans to watch but seeing the same few drivers slam every car to hurry up and pass is kinda silly (not accusing anyone imparticular btw just saying how the v8 fig8's are ROUGH all through the field) I know the Pony's don't lean on each other much at all while watching them.

If we lose 4 of the 5 drivers but gain 9 invite drivers we are 4 cars ahead simply from that stand point. The guys who have purpose build cars I do feel for. It sucks their tanks are now basically useless. I would hate to build a car to be told it is not legal at all. Hopefully everyone from last race and find a different ride.

I agree with Steve that this is probably the best way to get more cars in the V8 races. Most pure stock drivers felt that going out against the massive purpose built fig 8 cars was going to get their cars just simply tore up with no chance of winning. Being able to race your race car in the Fig 8 should get alot of those drivers. Something needs to be done to get more cars and this is the right direction. I know how much talk there was of canceling the Pony's because they didn't get 12 cars. I'd hate to see the V8's be canceled for getting 5 all the time.

I just does suck for those guys that have these cars built for figure 8. what do they do with these cars now? do they just scrap em? Do they tear them down and change everything to a pure stock? do they sell them? Kind of a bad deal to make that change right in the middle of the season. imho

If you think changing the F8 rules in the middle of the season is rough.. wait till you see what happens to the Pure Stock rules at SMS come 7/21.

well dont leave us hanging patrick? whats gonna happen on 7/21?

Really Patrick whats up with that? Whats going to change there? I hope its not too major.

changing rules for classes is ALMOST never a good idea, but with no other track
supporting a dedicated purpose built tank division, only the die hard 4 or 5 drivers
are gonna keep cars together for 3 races a year.

pure or ponies is gonna bring the masses back ed, my cars gone, 500 bucks for
scrap weight. big orange 39 got turned into a full cage mud buggy by my
bro in law.

ps.. long time no see, not on here very often any more just kinda snoop once
in a while

Yeah, I've been missing the "Get Bent" moniker there, Bone.

Glad to see you post here.

Visit more often.

have a good day,

schinde

Steve,

I understand your point, and your right, it probably isn't fair to those 3 or 4 drivers. Thing is, they have competed in these cars for YEARS now, as the rules haven't changed, when we all now know, they should of. That is the biggest problem with us doing it this way, is leaving those 3 or 4 guys hung out with nothing to do with those "tanks", for now. We had to do something, and waiting wasn't the answer. Every show we run with just a handful of Figure 8 cars, is another strike against us, and Figure 8 racing there. It WAS proposed that we just not even have any more this year, and try again next year, MAYBE. So the solution we used, far outweighs the other one, in my opinion. As much as it angers the 3 or 4 drivers, it welcomes many, many more, and by every report so far, delights the fan of this type of racing.

I know you know Jim Gokee, and he will have a car for the Sunday races. Jeff Cummings and James Clark, I guess I'm not sure about. Rolly Olney will find one if he wants to run, he isn't there every single Sunday, so we'll see. But now think about the Ray DerMiners, Frank Erlenbecks, and all the others that always ran, despite their disadvantage. Now they'll be on an even playing field, and all those Eastside Invaders can run 2 different divisions on Sunday, and get twice the pay, and have three times the fun.

In the longrun, it is a win/win situation for all. Even though it may not feel, or seem like it to a handful of drivers.

Big Ed. Great to see all of this passion for figure 8 racing. Maybe those 3 or 4 guys with tanks could get a set of rules from Flat Rock, check it out and race just about every Saturday night. We never way in on other people's buisiness. but take it from someone who has been around a lot of fiure 8 racing. Even 12 to 14 cars of equal running capabilities, rule wise will put on a good show. If the change in rules has been made, stick with it and hopefully some Lansing area racers will want to build those cars, and go race at Dixie or The City. It seeems all the traveling is being down from one direction. Anyway, think its excellent that maybe something positive can come from this thread to save another division of racing that is pretty unique to our region. See Ya!

Thanks Gary for the kind words. Coming from someone like you, with the real passion for Figure 8 racing, it does mean a lot.

I have just received the new pay schedule for the Pure Stocks & Pony's on Sunday's.



The Sunday shows have been a success so in order to maintain that success and hopefully increase the car counts we will add some money to the Sunday Slugfest pay off to help off set some of the travel cost.

Pure Stock:
1. 200
2. 150
3. 100
4. 90
5, 6, 7. 85
8, 9, 10. 80
11, 12, 13, 14. 70
15 to 22. 60

4 Cyl.
1. 100
2. 80
3. 70
4. 60
5 to 11. 50
12 to 24. 45

Pure Stock Figure 8
1. 300
2. 225
3. 200
4. 180
5. 160
6. 140
7. 120
8. 100
9. 95
10. 90
11. 85
12. to 16. 80
17. to 20. 75

Ed what is the pay for the pony figure 8

You all can say what you wish cancelling the sportsman figure eight's it boils down to one thing and one thing only and that is money!!! And time will tell you will not get any more cars now than you do any other time especially when the pay out is $450 less. Those same pure stocks could have run with the V8's yet chose not to. Say what you want you either you will run a figure or you won't it takes a certian person to run one of those races. You call those cars tanks!!! I have a pure stock that weighs 3600+ pounds I don't think it would be pretty to get hit in the door by that tank when your pure stocks are not built for that type of racing. I find it pretty interesting you judge the year by the car count of the first race of the year. Look at your regular night of racing the first night car count is always down. We do put lots of time and money in those tanks and for you to cancel mid season is wrong. Our motors have to be freshened just like the next guy. Jim do you realize the figure 8's have been here longer than you have and that speaks for it self.
Shame on you Spartan speedway especially for yet again biting the hands that feed you. Have you ever stopped and considered how far some of those dedicated figure 8 guys travel just for your sunday shows. And shame on those drivers if they show support to your new class. We spoke to you at the last figure eight race Jim and you stated to me "aren't you glad we added another figure 8 race" (that would have given us three for the season) what a joke. Your word means nothing. Once again it comes down to money and the $750 purse you pay us to put our lives at risk just to put a show on for our fans. The money all adds up and when you figure the # of people who attend the track and go in the pits with the Gokee gang alone not counting the 2 cars we brought the money lost all adds up.
I feel sorry for the mods and late models because when the car count is down you will be next!!!

I don't agree with this either.

I don't get how you're going to change the rules in the middle of the season. And they are only 2 figure 8 races left. Do you think the changes being made now will have a greater impact for just 2 SHOWS, rather than leaving things the way they were??? Maybe the reason you aren't getting the cars is because you cut the pay for Figure 8's this year, and yet you're doing it again.

How many people have YOU talked to, that have said they're willing to risk their life AND their car, for a measly $75 to finish, but only $300 at the most to win? I don't think it's worth it. I really hope for the track's sake, that you get all of these figure 8 drivers you are hoping for, for the next sunday race. But honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't.

And Ed, what makes you think Jim WILL have a car for the sunday race? How are you so sure about that?

Just because he has a pure stock, doesn't mean he's going to race it in the figure 8 also. His figure 8 car & his pure stock have totally different set-up's, and I sure wouldn't want to have to change all that for one stupid race on Sunday.

The sportsman cars had very VERY similar numbers to the Pony Stock figure 8's last year.

Those pony guys got $175 to win and $40 to start. They were risking their life, their car, and their money. All for $575 dollars LESS a night. They seemed happy to do it too. They would probably be very happy to take the same risks for $125 dollars MORE and $30 MORE to start. It was kinda an insult actually for the Pony guys to go out and run for a tenth of what the V-8 guys were running for. Then it was only about 75% still kinda an insult considering how close the car counts were.

Maybe the V-8 guys could build a Pony to run the figure 8's. Much much much cheaper to build, maintain, and race. Then they have a car which is cheaper to tow (1200 less pounds then a 3600 pound pure stock = less strain on tow vehicle), can be raced anywhere, and can be raced for many years with no rule changes. Heck selling the drive train in a pure stock would probably buy a front running Pony stock!!

It has also been mentioned that if the Pony figure 8's are running so is the V-8's. That would put the count at SIX races not three. Does Jim sit back a whole year and hope that the next 5 races don't continue the trend of last year and the start of this year or does he do something about it? The Figure 8's as they were was getting less cars a night. The guys in the pure stocks COULD have ran the figure 8's but they would take much much more risk then the true figure 8 cars with no chance of winning. The regular pures don't have a solid built front end, they don't have the reinforced door bars, they don't have the big motors. This basically means if one of them takes even a mild hit from the front of a "tank" it's going to be done while the other car will probably finish the race. If that hit is in the door it's almost certainly a bad bad night for the pure.

I will FULLY AGREE that this probably should not have happened in the middle of the season/after one race. I honestly do agree that is probably not the smartest choice. I do feel for the 3-4 guys with the "tanks" as we call them. I would not be happy to have a car that is legal nowhere that I already raced. I am simply seeing the bigger picture, and am hoping the 15+ people I've talked to that said they would run if the rules were not so open actually show up to race. I hope this works out at the next invite but am positive it will work out for the better as the year goes on and into next year.

This is what I feel should take place...

On the Sunday shows, the "Street Stock Slugfest" has always been a big draw. However, in the last couple of years, it has really faded. Not too many cars showing up from other tracks for this event. I think only one car showed up this last time. Therefore, the Street Stock Slugfest, consisting of the Spartan Sportsman cars primarily, should be eliminated.

On the other hand, there is a new Slugfest that is becoming very popular. It's the "Pure Stock Slugfest". This is getting to be the big draw on Sunday now. Even the "Mini Stock Slugfest" is starting to take shape and draw some cars.

Ok, there's your core show for Sunday. Now, throw in a special of some sort such as what was at the first Sunday show this year, the 100 lap Short Track Truck race and the Mini Cups as a bonus. Each Sunday could have a different added special race or two.

On top of this, add the Pony Stock Figure 8 and you have a very complete Sunday show.

Now, what to do with the regular Figure 8 show? Move 'em to Friday! In fact, run them EVERY Friday night. Wait, there's already 5 classes running on Friday night. That's right, one of them needs to go. Looks like the Supers get the boot. However, the purse money available for the Supers can be used for the Figure 8 race. Guess what would draw a bigger crowd on Friday night, a Super Late Model race or a Figure 8 race? I think the Figure 8 would be the big winner.

As for getting there on a Friday night, it wouldn't matter. The Figure 8 guys never show up when the gates open, anyway. They always pull in at the last minute. So, getting there is not a problem. And being able to race every Friday might be more incentive to get more teams involved.

As for the Supers, run some big races on Sundays. Did I hear somebody say "Super Slugfest"?

-Maurice

I'm NOT sure, and never said I was, I am HOPEFUL. If he doesn't, then he doesn't.

I am not going to argue with you first time, and 7th time posters here about this decision. I said that I knew it would not make EVERYONE happy. That was an obvious point right from the get go. Your angry, fine, I understand. There is nothing I am going to say here that you want to listen to, or choose to believe. But, in defense of the speedway, I will say, your wrong about the decision being made after ONE race this year. The counts have been WAY down for the last two years, or more. Did you read the part where we considered not even having any more Figure 8 races?? Would that have been better?? At least there was an alternative here. And I do think we will get a hell of a lot more cars with these new rules in effect. Sure, those Pure stock drivers could of run against you, but how well would you do bringing a knife to a gun fight??? They DID try over the last couple years, and pretty much got blown off the track, or pushed. As far as biting the hand that feeds you goes, we were starving, not getting feed enough, and neither were our fans. Have you watched the tape of 6 cars going around the 8 last month???

I'm sorry you feel so strongly that this decision was just meant to harm you. Your wrong. It was made in a last ditch attempt to save a division that was the strongest pull through the season at one time, YEARS ago. That is not the case now, and we want to see it revived. This is the path we have chosen. Time will tell, whether it was the correct decision, or not. It was NOT about lowering pay. My God, this division, comparably speaking, to any other division, at any other track, was paid very, very well, EVEN after the decrease to 750. How can you even think about bringing that up as a point??? With the rule chnages, and decrease in pay, we STILL will pay more than any other Figure 8 track running!!!

Again I am sorry. It is never any tracks intention to anger drivers with this type of change. But we HAD to do something, and this is the path we have chosen to take. While the handful of you that are dissatisfied with this decision, we have 2 to 3 times as many happy that we are TRYING to do something, and think this is a great place to start.

I hope you find a way to see our thinking, and find a way to help the process along, instead of thinking we were just out to get you, and you hold a grudge against us.

These things are never easy, there is always some kind of collateral damage. It sucks.

There are a lot of old beat up Street Stocks sitting around that are no longer being raced at Spartan Speedway due to the advancement of the rules as they progressed on into the Sportsman division.

These old Street Stocks could have street radial tires put on, a stock old motor installed, a little extra bracing, new seat belts, and go Figure 8 racing under the Pure Stock Figure 8 rules.

-Maurice

The hands that feed them? Well if they were feeding them they wouldnt be starving. This is a good move for Spartan. You cant run a 5 car show and pay 750 to win how can you not see that. Last year there were what 8 cars maybe. I knew there would be people upset, but your logig is failed. Sorry! Maurice I like your idea. Get rid of the Supers. Then theyd be on here saying shame on you Spartan. You cant win.

Scott,

I haven't heard if Jim is adjusting the pay for this division. Here is the present payoff on our website.

Pony Stock Figure-8's

1. 175
2. 100
3. 90
4. 80
5. 70
6. 60
7. 50
8-20. 40

Heats: 20/15/10/10

Im not seeing very many purestocks running for 300 when they wouldnt run for 750 Peroid!
Lets think back a couple years when Jims big rule changes was going to change every thing. Didnt happen
Spartan lost cars half of the street stocks. Now think back when Gary Fedewa took over. Wow more cars more people know the place has no Mods a "I think my diapers are full" late model show 5 pure stocks 5 street stocks Its not the fuel prices ,not the jobs Its the changes that cost the racer money.

Flat rock packs the place Dixie and AC has way more cars and people than Spartan. Think about this For example i work with a guy who has been going to spartan for the last 15yrs Will not go back he said the show is crap He drives 150 miles to go to Angola think about that where has all the racers and fans went I no to other tracks. I race dirt and i see people at dirt tracks now i never seen before From pavement tracks I hope my brother makes his sportman a pure and scares the hell out the 5 pures that run next time

P.s BigEd Some people dont live by there computer to post like some we know!!!!1 post or 500 they put there pants on the same as you with out us racers you dont have a job Next week you gona announce from the concession stand Change is good for the place

Only 11 days until the next Sunday show. There is no "official" announcement on the spartanspeedway.com website or message board about the Figure 8 rules change. The schedule still says "Street Stock Figure 8" and the payout sheet posted on the site still has the $750 to win and $100 to start payout.

I don't want to start something here, but this stuff should get changed and announced on the Spartan site as soon as possible.

I feel sorry for the die-hard Figure 8 guys that ALWAYS show up just like the die-hard Super Late Model teams that always seem to be there, that most likely will soon get cut as well. But, what can you do?

I still think my previously mentioned solution would be good with the Figure 8's on Friday and Supers on Sunday.

Oh well, sorry for the ranting. I can't help myself.

-Maurice

Thank you for your input Mr. Gokee, always enlightening.

The pure stocks didn't run before because they had no chance to compete with what was out there, PERIOD. We admitted that changing the Street Stocks to Sportsman hurt, we should of changed the Figure 8's to Pure's at that time in hindsight.

Gary Fedewa is a great man, and I will not bad mouth him, but Mr. Gokee, if what he did was so successful, why isn't he still there, and why aren't we doing everything the way they did when him and Donna were there?? Want the answer?? Because you run out of money!!!!! Bankruptsy. Foreclosure. You can't just throw money at a problem and hope it goes away, the only thing going away is the MONEY!!! The Figure 8 class the last couple years is a perfect example of that.
Again, I knew this was coming, and you and your family have every right to be put out for our decision. And you can be as angry as you want to be, but I won't just sit here and let you chastise everything about the track. That isn't fair. Again, for everyone of you that has complained about our decision, I have 3-5 that are greatful for it.

And how is it that a guy that just stated races dirt only now, knows all about Flat Rock, Dixie, and Auto City's car count, and how many people come through the gate. Must be nice to know everything about anything.

And again, you are wrong. I will have this same job right here where I sit right now no matter how many fans do, or do not come to Spartan. Announcing is NOT a job for me, it is fun!!! Getting paid for it is a bonus. I also get paid for doing work on the computer, but I really don't live by it. Is it really necessary to try and belittle me just because we made changes in a division at our race track?? Is it?? But go ahead and vent, I don't mind. You do have a ligitiment beef, as I have stated right from the get go. But is this path your walking going to solve anything?? NO, it's not. It'll only make matters worse.

I am sorry for the way you feel, I can only hope that time will heal your, and your families wounds.

Well do you tell the truth? In the mi racing scene I read every week how many cars they have had the previous week maybe there just lying Im not trying to bash Spartan i love the place and yes the figure 8 payed very well but the car being wrecked every time you race aint cheap neither Its a done deal my family said how they felt and thats it but Once again some bodys takin away from are dying sport again

I do understand why spartan is doing this Just my views on this!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as forecloures and bankrupt then we should have more cars now No house payments just a tire bill and fuel subjects over from my side what do i know just a dirt eater

hi guys, as a previous figure 8 racer i think that it is great to see you go back to pure stocks. thats one reason i dont race anymore. and as a racer when i raced both figure 8 and street stocks i raced the same car and all i did was put some air in the tires. no other changes. i think i will try and get me a car together and show you guys you dont need lots of money or make big changes to be succesful. i did it for many yrs. just my opinion but dont be suprised to see me out there again soon.i loved racing with those guys.thanks for listening Jeff Titmus