Who would be interested in a series that ran 2 times a month? This would include traveling but it would be something different for the Michigan guys that want to travel with the USA guys but don't want to go that far. Thinking maybe including tracks like Kalamazoo,Spartan,Owosso, Springport, Dixie, Auto City, Galesburg, Flat Rock.
I was just talking to some guys down by kalamazoo and we were talking about it and wanted some input. We all know the Gov. will have something to say but are looking to see who would actually be interested. I already have 5 drivers ready to do it and will always have the locals but want to get more drivers interested.

Who will decide rules and such stuff? The last traveling series, MSPA, long ago on Wednesday nights was just a power struggle between promoters to see who controlled the travelers. Everyone wanted their homies to have an advantage when we went to their track. If you got a night off at one track you automatically got the week off cause you were suspended from all the MSPA tracks. It gave certain people too much power to decide who raced.

2 nights a month would be fine because we won't be able to afford to race much more when pit passes get to 35 bucks,gas 6 bucks and start money less than the cost of one tire. Unmounted. It is barely affordable as it is with out driving 100 miles to race for $100 to start.

I would do it if the rules and enforcement was there solidly. I don't want to travel around to find homies getting an advantage because they have special rules at their track. "We don't do it like that" will be a

Dick that is what we are wanting to get away from "the homies" as you speak. It is going to be done by drivers( set-up the rules). The 2 nights a month Idea is to be able to travel but still save money from traveling to such places as IRP, Winchester,Anderson and so on. Wanting to keep it within Michigan was the other Idea. I know not many guys travel or have traveled even before the gas jump but there were some guys interested and wanted to start feeling the waters.

As for teching I stronglly agree that there would to be a tech that traveled with the series to avoid the "homie" deal.

I figured you might be interested but we figure we would need about 20 guys that would be interested but there will always be the locals at a track but we want some serious travellers.

I think this is an excellent idea modfan...have you noticed the 3 page thread under the other forum??

yes and we are in the process of trying to actually get this done. working with sponsors and checking with tracks. We are up to 6 guys that I know travel that would like to stay in Michigan. Trying to feel it out better.

Did everyone get their copy of Mike Creed and Ron Varney's "Road to Wealth" DVD this weekend or what?

LOL WOW! That's funny right there!

... picture, if you will, a mob scene ... with folks carrying lanterns and shovels and pitch forks and headed to the local graveyard to find a horse to dig up ........

OK, first off, i did not see the other thread as I do not post on here too much because every time you try to have a constructive conversation about something new, it turns into a bunch of arguing, bickering and insulting, and no, I am not attemting to make it that in this thread. What is being attemted is to get some interest in a "michigan" based, Modified series. This series would be constructed by a group of drivers who have a POSITIVE interest in making something like this happen. The idea that I have spoke with Arron about 4 months agao and last night was very simple and I will outline my thoughts of how i want to put this deal together with all of the variables included.

(1) EVENTS: 10-12 races, 2 races per month, located at different tracks in Michigan and possibly Angola. geographical limits would be as follows, without any definate track commitments at this time:
EAST: KALAMAZOO SPEEDWAY WEST: FLAT ROCK NORTH: DIXIE SOUTH: ANGOLA

(2) GOVERNING BODY OFFICALS: the governing body of the series would consist of a group of drivers from each geographical location. These individuals would be the ones that would put the series together, get commitments from thier area tracks, put the rules together and basically run the series as well as participate in the series. There would be tech officials that would go with the series and the governing body would have nothing to do with decisions at any event. decisions, rules enforcement, and all other issues at each event would be handled by the tech group of 3-4 folks.

(3) RULES: all rules would require a meeting of those drivers who register for the series and the rules would be put together and decided by a majority vote of everyone at the meeting. Every single rule would be done this way and any changes in rules would be handlled the same as well. Once the rulebook is set, no rules would be changed until the following year, unless it was deemed an emergency thing and a meeting could be set up to decide the change.

(4) PURSE: with the economy issues, the purse would have to start out being fair for both the racer and the tracks, while appealing to the tracks to schedule such an event. possibly 40 laps, 750 to win......150 to start, with the championship night being 75 laps, 1500 to win.....250.00 to start and that show would be determined by a draw from all participating tracks that wanted to have that show. This series would simply schedule the events, use thier rules, format and tech guys and the track would pay the purse. no checks mailed, no fee to the track for the series, no nothing. very simple.

(5) REGISTRATION/ENTRY: entry fees would be $25 per event and $50 if you are not registered and registration fee for the series would be $100.00. these fees would be used to get the tech stuff to the track, cover the tech guys passes and pay, trophies, etc. there would be no money pocketed by anyone. money left over at each event could be put into the points fund.

(6) POINTS: upon getting enough interest and putting together the governing body, we would have to start working on point fund sponsors. the point fund would also consist of left over money from each events entry fees and the season registrations, a 50/50 event that we would try and set up with each track when we are there. Points would be awarded for qualifying, heats, last chance and features as well as attendance. The point system would be structured to keep things very tight and close, while awarding solid attendance.

(7) POSSIBLE TRACKS: there is no tracks set in stone as there needs to be enough interest from drivers all over michigan to attract the promoters before anyone is approached. there also needs to be the governing body made up and the meeting on the rules and such before going forward. however, these are the tracks I had in mind for this series: KALAMAZOO, GALESBURG, BERLIN, FLAT ROCK, SPARTAN, SPRINGPORT, AUTO CITY, OWOSSO, DIXIE, ANGOLA.

as I told arron, i have a series name in mind and would love to move on this now in order to try and make it happen for 2009. As i also told arron, this takes POSITIVE INTEREST from everyone all over the state to make it happen and it could be done. All the negative stuff only kills things like this and makes it impossible to get modifieds on the same page all over the state. If this series was to go and work, you can bet that tracks all around michigan would conform to these rules and then you not only get to travel, but you get to race anywhere modifieds are run whenever you want without all the changes. The USA deal is awesome and it works well. this is not a idea to compete with that series, but the USA's home base is in indiana, thus alot of travel costs for michigan cars. We need something home based for us in Michigan. If your willing to let rules be decided by majority vote, willing to attend a meeting and become involved and want to run several different tracks to see who the king of michigan modified racing is, this would be a great way to do it.

It never fails. someone comes up with an idea to maybe help racers and they are trying to be positive about it and one person has to bring up all the negatives of the past because it pissed them off then. I know we can learn from past mistakes and try to avoid them ,but, do we always have to bring them up? It starts nothing but negatives and then it snowballs into bullsh*t .Think hard about how to make it work, and dont respond to the negatives. I cant believe it could be that difficult. Hell, someones already got gas at $6.oo a gallon! You dont need that kind of input. Pick the people that can give positive input without "me" issues. Go with whats the most popular as with chassis and engine and let them upgrade or down grade to meet the goals. When you run a series and you run a particlular track , the locals have to meet those guidelines or not race. Its not about them. Its about your series. Make it attractive with reasonble rules that can facilitate the majority for car counts and to attract tracks. .....My 2cents

it does not bother me in the least bit with what folks think might be bad for this to happen as all opinions matter, but what we need is for those guys to look at what is being attempted, open up thier minds and see if it can be done. i read the other thread and i do not agree that you need to get tracks and such to support it first. you need the drivers commitment and involvement to see if its even possible to field 30-40 mods at these shows. the real question here is, does this sound appealing and how many mod drivers would take the steps, be interested, attend a meeting and see what we could come up with. all you read on here is about the tire war, the bad calls, the rules sucking, etc. etc. this kind of deal gives everyone a voice and chance to help write the rules and build a series that ultimately belongs to the participating drivers. guys like dick mauer, governor and everyone on here...it would be nice just to see if we could even make the interest level high enough to take a shot at trying to make it happen.

I call that a positive approach.

I started this thread so that we could get some actual ideas and support so that we can keep the ball rolling. I think that this will be a great thing for the Michigan based modifieds. I know that if we can get the support than we can make it go. Thanks for all the input on this.

Todd,

This type of series is of interest too me as I may scale back to run the special type of shows, purely because of the cost of running 2 times a week.

I do think there are enough mods who would run quality shows from time to time if the travel were with-in a reasonable distance.

I would love to be able to run the USA series full time, but work and budget just don't allow it.

Hell I have not even had time to get my car ready yet, but will be taking some vacation time soon as I want to run the USA show @ the Zoo in August & September, plus the Berlin 2 day show.

I would be more than open to discussing what sounds like you and Arron already have, so you can call me any time @ 517-712-8122.

Next time I'm traveling towards the West side I will contact you and we can meet and have lunch, coffee or a beer after work.

Gov

Gavin, I would like to know what your beef is with the MMA. Seems like there was 30+ mods at the MMA shows, whats wrong with that? Last sat. was $1,000 to win MMA at Merritt, this week $1,000 to win at Cherry, next week $1,000 to win at Mt. Pleasant. Is the $125 one time annual registration (that you get back at the end of the year anyway) too much for shows like that all year long? If it is then no series will ever work in a million years. Nothing is free in life. As a registered member and supporter of the MMA I and our other members do not appreciate your negativity towards our organization. I think it would be a good idea for you do change your little sign next to your name.

that quote was meant as a joke mostly...
but here's my "beef" with the MMA: it never did much for pavement in my opinion, and that was the topic at hand. I can't speak for the dirt side of it as I've never been involved with dirt MMA. For the most part on the pavement they just kept us away from tracks we wanted to occasionally run, or took our money with no benefit. Heck one year I had to pay a temp MMA just to run Racin' and Rockin' and then never even got awarded the points, not that it mattered to me, but what was my money paid for? I know I never got it back at the end of the year... I'd like to know more about that deal. Maybe I missed some fine print and I have some money coming back to me.

The avatar just means, lets not bring the MMA back to the pavement, or anything that looks like the MMA, smells like the MMA, or costs like the MMA. Doesn't have anything to do with Cherry Merritt or Mt Pleasant. Honestly, I didn't even know it still existed, for that, I apologize.

Perhaps I should sum up my standpoint here: I have interest in a MICHIGAN based modified traveling tour. I have strict lack of interest in anything that is just an association that takes our money.

It is the tracks responsibility to send the points in by tuesday, so that track unfortunately was where the mix-up took place. Sorry about your misfortune there, but a simple phone call would have cleared that up.

Never did much for pavement? It dangled a $30,000 point fund that was awarded to over a hundred drivers and spent $25,000 in attorney and court fees for a pavement incident. Also helped bring full fields of cars, unless you like to race against only 4 or 5 others.

You dont have to worry about MMA coming back to pavement it will never happen, way too much bickering. Many of the drivers were very helpful and valuable to the association, however many were not in fact very dreadful to attend meetings with. Way too many rules, we are and will never be NASCAR. Sorry to break it to you but there will never be a series to satisfy all the high maintenance needs of many.

Todd/Aaron you can add me to the list of interested drivers. I know I don't have the pull of Gavin,Dick or Dan. But I do have some ideas that may help. I like the idea of two shows a month as I'm in the same boat as the Gov with work,family and the other things that seem to get in the way. Please let me know if I can be of any help, I'm not that far away (Dorr) so if you do have any meeting let me know,I'll come down. Once you get things in place I think I can also be of some help with awards and such.
The Wizard

This Is NOT an MMA thing. BY the way MMA WAS a good thing for the drivers that raced full time but that is not what we are trying to do. Thanks for the support Kevin.

for 1 year they offered a point fund that was that good... and trust me they didnt have to spend that much on the lawsuit, they filed for summary disposition very early on and they were out. I don't think it had any effect on car count, more tracks added mods at the same time, so the fields thinned shortly. We didn't run all the races, and we dont run anywhere for points, so all they did was take our money with no benefit and redistribute the moeny to those that run every week. Why does this help racing? We always talk about deep purses that help the little guy afford to go on, but in the same breath we are FOR an association that does nothing but take money from everyone and give it to the winners? Doesn't make sense to me... therefore I am AGAINST an association coming back in for pavement mods.

back on topic:
Aaron, my dad said he'd be interested in running if it were: somewhat centralized travel, not kinross one night, kalamazoo one night and elmira the next night etc., Hoosier 970 tires, and a reasonable pay scale... no one expects to make money, but $100 to start can't last long with the cost of fuel. Mike and I are considering it as well.

I think you would have good luck now days I know a lot of us dirt guys only race where the purse is worth the drive A couple shows a month is perfect and not so stress full of every week.I dont think the purse should be on top stretch it out $900 to win $150 to start make it worth the drive No point fund crap Then people have to committ and now days they cant The more fun this is the more drivers will love to come and race Make just a tire rule and thats it if you race at your Michigan track as a mod you can race this Keep the crying from happening


Hey Gavin whats Sod promise ya!!! I know MMA is the same as it always been on the dirt or pavement never see a tech guy or any body from MMA period!!! just pay to join and never hear about it again I know from exp that ump is the only one that will show up and tear cars apart and make you fix them before you go on the track even if its a half inch on the Sail panel


Dirt Mod 73

Just my 2 cents here..... As the General Manager of the Angola Motor Speedway I want to say that I have NO intention of straying from the current United Modified Rules or the USA Modified Group. They have been great to work with and the drivers that support the series are some of the best.

Why not stop thinking of how to add yet another traveling series (that ends up hurting car counts and fans......we have seen this ALOT!) and start supporting those that are attempting to stay alive?

Thank you
Wes Parrish
General Manager
Angola Motor Speedway

Wes,, although I have no real say in how this would be run,, I hope it would not be looked at as competition to teh USA Series, You are correct, they are a great bunch of guys and I have worked with most of them a lot in the past. I would hope that if this Michigan based series does come about, they would work WITH Steve and his schedule and try and do the Michigan tracks on the TOUR off weekends.. That would also allow the USA (Michigan) drivers to make both sets of shows. That is why I'd like to see them/us just use ALL the USA Tour rules (Simple). When it started (ICAR) USA was mostly Indiana guys, except for Chuck Olson,Ken Kropf and a couple other. This could just be considered the USA Michigan division.

The "ICAR", spearheaded by Jim Minich, was actually called something else before Jim took it over, but I can't recall the name. Anybody know?

Well when dave dayton had it it was called E-Mod and it use to race mostly Indiana, even ran a couple dirt shows.. was Rookie of the year in 80'?

Gavin- thats what we were thinking of not being spread out like that. And I'm pretty sure that it would be the 970 due to everyone running them everywhere. Rules would be made by the drivers and am pretty sure that they would probably be like the USA rules. USA guys just travel so far and is hardly possible for the Michigan guys to run with them when they have a show at IRP and the next one at say Winchester.So he would like to go to Auto City one time and then Dixie the next. The following times go to Kalamazoo and then Springport.(This is just an example)

Wes- not trying to compete with anyone but trying to help out Michigan drivers. I personnally can't afford to send my car with the USA modifieds but love to travel. There are alot of other great drivers here that also can't afford to travel that far.

Rick- thanks for the input, thats what we were think about with the pay, but it would be up to everyone that will be getting involved and I think those numbers sound just great. The purse would be around $5700.00(that might be tough)

My original Idea was to do both dirt and asphalt but I know that would never work.

Thanks for all the input and please keep it coming

Aaron-Ck Racing & Fabrication

EMOD




SOD is the real deal, best group I have EVER run with, bar none. They don't promise anything if you don't run the races, which I expect. However, I paid them less than I used to pay the MMA, and it was the same price after the first race as it was before the season started, and I see no less than 5 SOD officials at every race, and my car REALLY gets teched just like the rest of the cars, the series has their own radios for the raceivers, cars get teched often, not just glanced at, and last but not least I'm a member of a NATIONAL sanctioning body (ASCS). So look at all the overhead that I just mentioned, and it's all done for less membership than the MMA used to be. We also get REAL contingency awards from the sponsors, I was given a $25 coupon from HRP at the last race I ran. Most I got from the MMA was an offer to pay $150 to go to the banquet at the sponsor's establishment, to not collect anything. I don't expect anything this year either only running 1/2 the races, but I feel like I've already saved money, and I've already gotten more back. Taking money from the slow and giving some of it to the fast doesn't help the sport, adding prestige competition and professionalism so that you can take money from the sponsors and give it to the racers so that the racers can keep coming back is what will help the sport.

mod73 had a really good point about only running 2x per month as well. That week in between saves a ton of stress.

actually Wes, i spoke with Kieth from the USA deal about something like having a USA series in michigan and in indiana to help battle the travel costs when we were at angola. He actually thought it was not a bad idea, but we have not discussed it since. Nowhere in this type of deal would this be to hurt the USA deal as i am a supporter of that series, think its great and will continue to support that series. This is a idea for a series for drivers who would like to run some tracks in michigan on a limited schedule and cannot afford to travel as far to places like winchester, indy, salem, nashville etc. you have an indiana track and that is the home base for USA, so your opinion is understandable. the idea behind this is to be able to cut some costs (hotels, gas etc.) and be able to run different tracks a couple times a month. at this point and time aren't you trying to look at ways to cut costs in order to keep running a racetrack? If not, then your doing alot better than any other track owner or your not seeing the future. I know as a business owner myself, I always look for better, more affordable ways to operate and do the things I want to do. thers no difference here....there a guys who want to travel, but cannot afford to go so far...so this type of deal would allow guys who want to do some traveling the opportunity.

as for a schedule I think trying to run one show on the east side and one show on the west side each month would be the best way to do it.

Every well said.

Gavin, perfect. I understood exactly what your point was, and could not agree more.

I also agree with Wes. How can a new series help the sport as a whole? All it will do is thin the car counts even more. More cars are getting out of the sport, than what is coming in. So, the cars have to come from somewhere. They come from the tracks, and other series. It is a direct competition.

I would also be interested in something like this.....and just a thought it would be nice to work with the existing USA series, Why not do like the ASA late models and have a North, South and challenge series, where The USA guys from Indiana, Ohio could run thier regular shows close to home. Then we could have our shows here in MI, and have a couple North vs. South Challenge races say one in each state throughout the season.


Just my 2 cents

like i said before, i talked with keith beeching from the USA deal at angola and sent him a suggestion as to that exact thing. having a north/south deal and counting each guys best 10 races and crowning each division champ at nashville or something at the end of the year.....a north vs south championship race. he said it sounded interesting and like a decent idea. i dont care how it worked out to be honest. whether it was a michigan based series using usa rules, a usa north series or whatever. we just need something like that here in michigan. i would just like to be able to travel around to various tracks and race.

Duane,
That's a fair point that perhaps is overlooked. The issue is that the promoters won't work together to save themselves, and really I'd like to see all classes become a traveling tour of sorts. The best way IMHO is for the promoters to work together, and stagger their schedules. If AC, Whittemore, and Owosso (for example) got together and worked their schedules so that each track ran mods every third week the racers could choose to run just Whittemore, or run all three... either way the car count at each track would go up. That would be some mighty fine competition too, I might add. The racers get the best of both they can run for thier precious championship at their home track, and they'll get to run other tracks if they choose (some racers are too chicken to leave the safety of home, so they just get a vacation).

It can without competing against the weekly tracks if promoters decide they want to save themselves, but until then...

(did I mention I'm not holding my breath?)

kinda interesting thing i was just looking at on the USA deal. there are 9 michigan drivers, one full time, that I know of that have run the series this year, with the majority of the drivers from indiana.....whats the point? if there was a series set up in michigan, i would bet that there would be plenty of michigan mod drivers running the michigan series and very few coming from indiana. its all about the cost to travel so far, not about the desire to support such a great series like the USA deal. arron said the longest haul with something like this would be dixie to kazoo and with his calculations he said about 140.00 in fuel. thats alot better than driving 3-4 hours and spending double the fuel. thats why I think a north/south series would be great if that could be done.

I would like to lead off by saying, I have no intention of bashing, criticizing, or raining on your parade, or appearing as having a negative attitude. However, there is this overwhelming urge to voice in on this subject.

First off, I do believe, that if you are serious to start such an endeavor, there is one question that should be asked first and foremost. Do you intend on running a “budget-minded series” or a “more opened budget” series? If it's the budget minded, then I give it 3 chances in 20 of success. If it's more opened, then I would go with 6 chances in 10. Let's face it. It's takes a pretty decent sized budget to consider the expense of racing and traveling.

Second. What's going to be your 'uniqueness'? Your gimmick (as it were)? Will the cars be faster? Or will they be the same exact cars and teams that are competing now?

Third. Just what is the 'enticement' for a promoter to scratch a regular racing program to bring in your group? Are you not asking for a higher dollar amount purse? You are basically asking for tracks to 'park', and 'scratch' their program in order to bring you in and then you want his parked cars to be able to compete (after paying a registration fee) and want more money to boot. From a promoters stand point, they have to be asking: What's in it for me?

Forth. Do you seriously and honestly think that having a board of drivers is the answer? Personally, I don't feel that any type of group should have anyone in a major role position, that has ties to anything going on out on the race surface. Do you need driver and car owner input? Of course you do. But when it comes to policy and management, the personnel should be as neutral as possible.

Rules. As it stands now, Almost anyone that wants to travel, can. Anyone that wants to travel would be welcomed with open arms at just about any track that runs a modified. (and I know that some promoters are very protective of their sandbox) The across the board rules package's are pretty much in line with every one else now. Everyone is falling in-line on the tire issue, engine issues, and over-all rules. So, what's stopping some teams from traveling now? Which brings us back to: What's the uniqueness?

In my opinion, if you want to start something 'new', then perhaps consider turning the wick up a couple of notches. And stop – stop – stop, building rules for the faint of heart and budget minded. (in a post else where here) I stated that the weight should be 2400# across the board. (or whatever the number is for that matter) Period. Shouldn't matter what cylinder heads you have, or what shocks, or what springs. No one cares. (quote, mod911) To use the lighter weight on the cylinder head issue, one might just as well have to add weight for an open helmet versus a full face, and add weight for a one piece fire suit over a 3, and add weight for lack instrument gage's instead of a full cluster and add weight for a 2 core radiator over a 4, and add weight for a 13 gallon fuel cell versus a 20, And so and so forth. Where will it end? Turn the wick up on the tires. Put some sticky slicks on. Establish your 'own' track records. Make it a show worth watching and be 'unique'. After-all, their MODIFIED'S.

If you really want to put the brain trusts together, then work on a solution to curing the electronic traction control (you ALL know what I mean) and the soaked tire issues. You know it, I know it, every one knows it. It's out there and it is being used on a weekly basis in our own back yard. And for God's sakes, put everyone on the same fuel. (be it gas or alcohol) It's a fire fighting nightmare.

And that's my opinion ..... Back to you in the booth ........

I have to agree somewhat with your comments,,, I think in this day and age you need something that sets you apart,,, even if it is something simple like topless or bigger tires/slicks. However I think Todd is also on the right track with making it USA type rules.. I do ave a question about your comments though,, back in the old days Carlings Circuit of Champions or MSPA,, other than being Wednesday nights, what set them apart?? Or is it the fact that back then we all just wanted to go racing, no matter what?? I remember crawling into work MANY Thursdays, wondering how we were going to get ready for the weekend of Ionia,Crystal,Owosso after be a someplace like AC, or Butler or whatever..
The Wizard
Todd,, I will be there in "09" with whatever you put together,, maybe not all of them, but most.

ah, back in the day ....

If I remember right, Dick Beebe (Marc Times fame) was instrumental in the MSPA. His paper was very helpful in getting the word out, and helped to organize the promoters to share some common ground. This was also back in the day of no cell phones and every other electronic gadget, to keep peoples minds distracted. The cost of living was also different. I do believe that 'most' folks involved in racing in those times past, were products of the muscle car era. Racing was in the blood a lot more than now. That was also the preceding days of a dish on every roof and fuel economy was something made fun of. It was also a long stretch between any type of military conflict. Now at the click of a remote or a computer mouse, we can see anything we want and still stay in our jammies. Adults are busy trying to raise kids and find college funds and plan for an expensive retirement. Kids are too busy texting and playing video games. Everything was different.

I sincerely believe that if a group intends on getting people off the couch and into a grandstand, a whole new approach needs to be thought out. People have 'seen' the same basic modified for years and years. And a new series is like, yeah, ok, whatever.

Topless (optional) and slicks. Throw in some open thinking on brakes and other little area's and you just might be on to something. Modified's of today are approaching 700 horse power. Can you imagine the lap times they could turn with a good slick. It wouldn't surprise me to see them crack open track records set by super lates. In my opinion, folks will not flock to a race track to watch slow cars.

Just look at the standing room only shows. The World of Outlaws, SOD, AVSS, Iceman, etc.

I think it was Bob Snure (sp) that was working on the now defunct "Thunder Mods". It was a great idea, just mis-managed.

And that's my opinion .... back to you in the booth....

The Thunder Mods were a good idea, like you said.. I use to have a ball running with Ken Kropf and the guys.. I also think you are right on lap times.. Last year at the Kazoo "Call of the wild" Logan,Wyler and others in Mods with big tires were in the "A".. Granted there were wings and things involved,, but I still think the bigger tires would be helpful. And if you kept it to 10" wheels, you are looking at about a $600 or so add to travel with something different.

The 'gimmick', the 'enticement'. Whe you can show a promoter that you are putting fans in the grandstands, you have answered his question "what's in it for me?" If a unique group can put people in the grandstand, promoters will 'want' to schedule you. It's all about the "show".

To try and pull current car's from a track now to tour is going to be rough. Let's face it, there are plenty of modified's out there. They range from backyard technology to upwards of $40,000 investments. Only the high end car's can and will travel. If a group is only looking at a 2 or 3 track deal, well you could call it a tour or a series (and I know you have to start somewhere) but in all actuality, it's going to be more localized than one might think. And to go from there to getting more tracks on board, is going back to scratching and parking for a group to replace the night's program with local car's. And your back at the huge stone wall that is out there now.

Your right about low conversion cost's. And it could still be converted back to the original format with minor changes. Now you could theoretically involve the entire state and draw on a lot of car's and teams that do have the budget. For a group like that, it would only need, what? 20 to 25 car's? If you could just pull 2 or 3 from each track, it wouldn't take long to obtain a good, solid starting field.

The General Manager of Angola has already stated that he has no intention's of straying from the current program. And, I would have to think that are more promoter's that think the same thing. I can't say that I blame them. Finding promoter's and track's that would give you a shot and host such an event is going to tough. Getting put on a schedule is going to be tough for any new series or group or tour or whatever you want to call it. Not to mention if it involves parking his headliners, (modifieds are a headline show whether some want to accept that or not) then you might just as well stick a fork in it.

So, we're back to: Whats the uniqueness? Whats the enticement? Whats in it for me? Just what would cause a promoter to stray?

And thats my opinion ... Back to you in the booth ....

Any drivers or car owners that would like to be involved would you please give me an e-mail ckfabricator@yahoo.com or call 517-581-5781. We are looking at setting up a meeting with anyone that would like to attend and want to see when would be best for everyone.

We are working on our uniqness for you webhorse. We are also trying to make it to where it is a great deal for the tracks also. Just looking for some help here.


Thanks
Aaron

First off, modfan, I want you to know, that I would LOVE, ABSOLUTELY would LOVE to see a Modified Series under the current format. To crown a Series Champion would be AWESOME. It would be great for drivers, crews, fans, promoters, and advertisers and sponsors.

However, I just don't see it happening under the present conditions. Too many tracks are running the same car now to even think of pulling cars. Not to mention getting promoters on board to host that type of show. Talks of proposed purses and what-not will lead to no where, if the promoters won't schedule the event or even consider it. So we're back to uniqueness. I realize that it is a fine line between unique and current. Getting drivers interested is the easy part. On another thread they are debating rules issues and how to use this piece and that part and how to make drivers happy. And that's good. But where will the actual purse come from? I have yet to see any promoter step up and say .. Bring em on. 1 or 2 might be interested and that's a start. 2 major players in the form of Angola and Kalamazoo are already pretty much out of the question. Owosso is the most promising and some of east side tracks.

That's where the uniqueness comes into play. Personally, If I were to set out to create a new 'deal', it would resemble something like the NASCAR Whelen Modifieds. But, the last time I looked, there aren't of those cars in Michigan. So where to start? Turn the wick up on what you have now, is my prevailing thought. There are teams out there right now just itching to bolt on all these exotic speed parts just to see how fast they can go. I also know that even though a team may have a budget to handle this type of situation, no one likes to throw money down a hole.

IMCA basically started this whole shebang with it's modifieds. Common rules, common cars, engine claims (to keep the big bucks out) legal all over the country. It was a 'hell of an idea'. it caught on and it worked. The days of engine claim are LONG gone for most and most wouldn't even consider giving up a healthy engine to anyone for any amount of money. Rules have been opened, engines are in the 600hp and up range, chassis are custom built, quick changes, exotic metals, and a ever growing list of go-fast parts. You know yourself, that there are those (teams) out there that don't even flinch when buying a new chassis. And they range from what? 8 -9 thousand to into the 20's. And engines? 15 to 25 thousand. And some of these guys are buying this stuff as fast as it can be produced. And they will go out and race for 500 to win. (that's another whole 'mind boggle' there) But the fact is, they are there. They want to run fast. They want to run up front. They want to feel that rush. So why not give them a venue to do just that?

I wish you good luck. I really do.

If I were to build rules, what would they be? Well, 2300 or 2400#s, across the board. Doesn't matter if Al heads or quick change. Doesn't matter if coil overs or 5". Doesn't matter if fab front clips or OEM. Doesn't matter if fab lowers or OEM. Roofs optional (stay with in current body rule dimension's)(until you see where it goes). After market or OEM brakes allowed. If you have the bazookas to buy $5000 worth of shocks - god love ya. 10" slicks. The whole idea would be to put 'em out there turn 'em loose. We both know that there are cars out there right now that would just have to bolt on the slicks and they would be ready to run, as is.

Now the biggie. What kind of purse? Who knows. Would there be some teams willing to put on an exhibition during a intermission somewhere, for free track time for test and tune? Is there a track out there would welcome a test/tune exhibition? If you can get the fans and promoters attention, maybe just maybe, you could sit down and talk about the future.

Since i just heard about this post I guess i have to ask why start a new series. I seen were it was said that this was not out to hurt other traveling series or local tracks. WRONG. Anytime a new series is started it is going to invade on car counts on both sides. The USA deal is going strong now with roughly 30 cars at each show and now this will only hurt car counts. If somebody wants to help modified racing and racers then go get sponsors and hold a bigger paying race or get with Mr Ellis and help the USA series become bigger and better for all involved. As an idea you can get more Michigan tracks involved and get an increase in the purse. Join up with the USA series and maybe have a point series yourself for just all the Michigan tracks. How sweet would it be for promoters and fans to see 40 to 50 plus modifieds in the pits. Racing in a general is not looking good because racers want more money and to spend less were tracks are wanting to spend less and charge more. Lets just take what is working and make it better. As an example: The Sam Faur Race was an awesome chance for racers to make good money so why not have a pay out like that every week as we seen almost 50 race cars there. Jusy my 2 cents worth.

We would love to do something with the USA series but they are more focused on the Indiana, and Ohio Tracks. This thing might have some flaws but no where is it intended to mess with the USA modifieds and from where I am I don't see how it would effect them anyhow. We don't have many drivers from here that run their shows anyways because of the cost to travel and having to wait a week for their pay. This is what we are trying to do for the Michigan Drivers that want to race a series but not have to travel 4-5 hours away from home. As for the Sam Fauer race that was a great one but I don't know how we could get the backing ot have one of those races every week due to that being such an awesome payout. There was 50 cars at that race also because they scheduled it right with the USA boys off and many other tracks off.

How many of those cars would have been USA legal had it been run with USA only rules?

There's a lot of flak in the air over creating a new series. And how it will adversely affect local tracks and car counts and fan base. On the other hand, I have been trying to assemble a list of 'new series' that have been created. The Auto Value Super Sprints ( a spin off of the SOD group), (and please forgive me, but there is also another Winged Asphalt Sprint group that I just can not rememeber the name of) but, that's 2, the Short Track Trucks, the SuperPro series, The Legends series, the Dwarf series, the Mini-Cup series, (and MyOpinion mentioned) a 305 sprint group, and well, you get the idea. Feel free to jump in here and list some other 'newly' created racing series. I know that some have been around a long time and are not really all that new. But the point is, new series pop up all the time. All of these groups have their own a special 'uniqueness'. All it took was some good old fashioned pioneering and a lot of good luck.

From the rose colored glasses, one might say, that by bringing in a 'unique' series, that it could be seen as a shot in the arm for some tracks that are always looking for ways to keep the fans entertained. The right groups seem to find a way onto some elusive schedules.

Class and 'spec' racing all but killed drag racing back in the day and bracket racing was born. Even NASCAR added a 'new' series with The Craftsman Trucks.

New and Improved shows are created all the time. Just have to find the 'nitch'.

i have been gone on vacation with my family and just got home, so sorry for no repsponse lately.

as for the usa thing: POSITVE: great series that can only get better. i have run the sieres and it is awesome. NEGATIVE: long travel for michigan cars, 1 michigan car running the entire series and 95% of the cars running are from indiana or ohio.

i agree that having this be a usa deal would be great, but the question is and has been proposed is this: is there a possiblity of having a usa north and south series? if so, great. the rules are good (need some minor changes for michigan area), the series is great and its run very well. if not, then there are alot of michigan based drivers who would love to run other tracks and a series like the usa deal that simply cannot afford to travel as far south as indy, winchester, salem etc.

i dont know if this is possible or not, i am not claiming to have the answers to this. i am simply stating that there are alot of guys in michigan who would love to run all over michigan in a small series and see how they fair against other drivers and at other tracks. if that is done under usa rules, great, i would do it. if it is done under some other rules, great, I would do that and so would alot of others.

finally, its not impossible for a new series to happen. all of the series you mention were new at one time as well and there is NO modified series in michigan. however, you are right, it must be appealing to racers, promoters and potential sponsors to be able to make it.

the question asked when this thread started was, is there enough driver interest in michigan to start the needed steps to try and get something put togethet to present to promoters and sponsors. if so, lets get some names together, set up a meeting and see where it goes. if we have 30-50 interested drivers and the meeting goes well, we could move forward and put something together for presentation to promoters and sponsors. if not, then we still can run the usa deal in indiana for those who can afford it. my team IS running a series next season of some kind. either one put together here in michigan or the usa deal or we will just travel around and run bigger shows. it is the reason i built a mod and it sounds like there are alot of others who built them for the same reason.

Probably the Wolverine Outlaw Midgets, which no longer have wings, but used to be the Wolverine Outlaw Winged Midgets, which are not sprint cars.

I did forget the Wolverine Midgets. Perhaps the group I'm thinking of is the same group that Gary (MyOpinion) was talking about elsewhere. Seems to me, that Rose (Calabrase?sp), started doing a sprint deal. Or is she involved still with the AVSS?