After seeing many posts regarding the discussions of creating new Michigan based racing series I had a simple thought. Why keep trying to reinvent the wheel? Aren't many traveling series currently struggling to get cars, fans or even race dates? Instead of creating a new series why don't the members of the MSTRC band together to really help the state of short track racing by working with the MSPA (Michigan Short Track Promoters Association) to create standardized rules across all facilities. Like dirt tracks have been doing for years? Unlike asphalt cars, if you race on dirt whether it's a mod, late model, or sprint you're basically legal at hundreds of tracks, not just a few.

One major problem with asphalt short track racing, especially in the Michigan, is the different variations of each class. If I was new to the sport and I wanted to race a late model where would I start?

Template body vs. outlaw?
Steel vs. aluminum heads?
Wet vs. dry sump?
Big block vs. small block vs. crate?
Slicks vs. treaded?
Tire widths?
Engine Setback?
Shocks?
Travel vs. local series?
Blah, blah, blah...

And these are only a few of the many questions I would ask myself before purchasing equipment. Basically every track in Michigan has different rules and tires for the same class of cars. It’s too dam confusing! No wonder the sport is failing to attract new blood. Get together and make common rules, not new series. In the long run the sport would be better off because drivers wouldn't be locked-in to one track. When track A treats a driver unfairly he/she could go to track B. When tracks X, Y, and Z piss the racer off they could sell everything and find another hobby (like I did). Plus, if rules were more similar drivers/owners would have a better opportunity to recover some of their investments because the equipment being sold could be used at many different tracks.

I realize getting the MSPA together to agree on common rules would be VERY DIFFICULT. However, I really don't see how creating new sand boxes (series) will help racers or tracks remain financially viable, especially with Michigan's current economic climate. A few years ago the MSTRC helped create a new series. Why not lobby the MSPA to create common rules???

Just Wondering,

Brian

I for one think your idea has merit. The MSPA should be leading the charge to help racers with standardized rules and a major undertaking to reduce racer costs.

To be honest, I am really disappointed with the MSPA. There still seems to be a lack of wanting to work together for the common good of the sport. I believe their agendas have more to do with track based costs versus standardized rules that save racers money.

In regards to the future of race series ? It's been rough for many of them and its going to get worse. Promoters are very reluctant to book a traveling series because of costs and the chance of big losses if the weather is iffy or the crowd thin. Car counts are also a problem for many of the series. The last thing I would do at this moment would be to start a new series. Instead I would work towards an association that could help standardize the rules.

This winter is going to be interesting. I think your going to see promoters regroup over the coming months and the traveling series are going to take a hit. If anything promoters will hold their own special events similar to what the Zoo and Dixie has done. You will probably see Berlin do the same with their Boyne shows. It helps brand their tracks and also keeps the costs in line allowing them to manage their own financial risks.

I really do not know where the MSPA stands today, who the major players are and what their objectives are for the near future, but I hope it includes moving towards standardized rules for racers ( I seriously doubt it ). I still believe the MSPA is missing out by not bringing back their old MSPA series. But thats going to be hard if not impossible to do with the different rules at the tracks.

If anything, with this sport being in so much trouble, now would be the time for all the promoters to come together and start working towards securing their futures. The asphalt promoters need to look no further then thir dirt counterparts to see that standardized rules makes sense.

Chris

MSPA tried to establish the Street Stock rule. Unfortunately, that lasted a year. Many of the tracks went and tweaked the rules for their track and, thus, defeated the purpose of the standardized rule. I would assume that the same thing would happen in this case, as well.

If the promoters would band together and standardize the rules,that would be the first step in the right direction of bringing racing back to what it once was!

Thanks Chris for the correction (MSPA and not the MSTPA). I edited my earlier post. Does anybody know who the major players are in the MSPA or when they meet?


That's a shame. The sad part is many Michigan tracks have low cars counts. You think they would want to HELP the racer and not chase them off. On second thought, maybe things will never change. Just the other day my dad and I were discussing back when we had our team that tracks were reluctant to work with us and our sponsors to help promote THEIR RACETRACKS. For years we had an affiliation with Flint/Lansing radio stations so we did live radio remotes on raceday's while displaying our car at Arby's restaurants. Believe it or not it was it was difficult to get tracks to simply give us a few grandstand tickets to handout (not once did we get a free pit pass). Many owners/promoters felt giving away tickets would cost them $$$. The only people that really worked with us were Jack D. and Jane S. and they have long since left the game.

Brian

I can believe it.

Jane and Jack both were successful promoters because they understood marketing. They were never afraid to try something once and they both understood the marketing term " lost leader item ". It's a common practice stores still use today. They sell a product, ( lets say milk ) at a loss in an effort to move traffic through their store knowing full well that these same consumers who bought their milk would more then likely also buy bread, coffee and other items. Promoters have had a serious problem with handing out free tickets and I still do not understand - Why Not ?

Promoters in some cases cannot see the forest for the trees and many simply do not understand marketing concepts that are outside the ordinary. I have seen one promoter in the last two years pull out all the stops and hand out oodles of free tickets while performing new marketing campaigns. I always smile when I see this promoter do things out of the ordinary because I believe he has a better marketing mind then most promoters. He isn't afraid to step off the edge to find something that may work and that's what is needed today. ( Great job Jeff and keep at it. ).

In regards to the MSPA and the main players in the game, I am not sure who wields the big sword there now. I do know a couple who have no clout with the MSPA and thankfully one is now gone and another soon will be.

I just wished things were different. This sport involves a lot of people, from promoters to racers to race fans and its a shame all of them cannot come together to help fix the sports problems. Promoters seem to believe that if they go to their favorite drivers and get their input then they have done something for the sport. That is simply not true.

I guess I can keep dreaming that everyone will come together and work on solutions as a group. Of course I can also keep dreaming that J-Lo or Selma Heyek will call me for a hot date sometime too.

Chris

The MSPA (Michigan Speedway Promoters Association) isn't run by one person. It is run basically by the whole association. They do have a board which I believe is 2-3 asphalt tracks and 2-3 dirt tracks (can't remember how many are on the board for sure). If you are in need of contacting someone from the MSPA, you could contact: Ron Drager from Flat Rock Speedway, Joe Dewitt from Auto City Speedway, Ron Flinn from Crystal Motor Speedway (That is all I can remember that is one the board), or Allan Brown from National Speedway Directory who is board secretary. Member tracks include: Auto City, Crystal, Merritt, Kalamazoo, M-40, I-96, Winston, Mid-Michigan, Owendale, Owosso, Mottville, Thunderbird, Spartan, Springport, Kinross, Galesburg, Flat Rock, Dixie, Cherry, Berlin, Butler and I'm probably missing a few. The MSPA also has a website that may provide some info. regarding members. It is www.michiganspeedways.com. I'm sure that any of the above mentioned tracks would answer any of your questions.

Sue

P.S. Good luck on standardized rules. I sat in on one of those kinds of meetings and they couldn't hardly agree on what to call them.

That is simply not true. The promoters got along fine, sure there was discussion about some issues but to say that they could hardly agree on what to call them is a flat out lie. The problem with the standardized rules was when the rules were introduced to the drivers they said lets keep the rules we have and had no desire to travel. That was for dirt street stocks, personally I am for standardized rules and think that they would be a positive in most situations.

As for the MSPA Dixie is not a member but add Mt. Pleasant to the list as they are a member. For the most part the promoters get along and try to work together pretty decent with the exception of a couple.

I have always been lead to believe the MSPA was never a sanctioning body, but rather a promotional group that tries to help each other out by sharing marketing ideas and getting owners together to resolve scheduling issues. All any Mich. tracks have to do to get standardized rules is adopt IMCA rules which cover most every class, not just mods. as some believe.
BUT unless they WANT to, they will keep what they have right or wrong!

Since I was the promoter at Springport last year, I paid the MSPA dues and attended both meetings that were held in 2007. I don't recall any discussions concerning standardized rules.

-Maurice

I was referring to the dirt tracks who got together to attempt to standardize the street stock rules. Merritt, Crystal, Mid-Michigan, Mt. Pleasant and I-96. It was held in Crystal. It had nothing to do with pavement tracks. Sorry for any confusion on that. Also, I took the info for member MSPA tracks off the website which listed Dixie as a member, but I did miss Mt. Pleasant.

Sue

Yes, I know what you were referring to. I was pointing out that the MSPA meetings did not discuss standardized rules. Maybe that is something they should put on their agenda. After all, there is no other meeting held anywhere where that many Michigan promoters are gathered in one place at the same time. It would be good to hear all of their thoughts on the subject rather than just keep saying year after year how good it would be if all the tracks would standardize their rules.

Someone on this site should get this message to Ron Drager so he will put the subject on the agenda for the next meeting which should be scheduled for October, I believe.

-Maurice

There was a group of pavement promotors, plus the Main Event series that held meetings to come up with standardized Outlaw Late model rules, called the Late Model Allience. There was give and take on the rules and it lasted about one year and then various tracks because of competitors and manufacturers started drifting from the original concept to what we have once again, most tracks have different rules. Having been involved in racing as a fan, crew member, official writer and announcer since the 50's, for some reason, pavement racing has always been to some degree, adverse to a standard set of rules for different divisions. In these difficult times, however, it would not be a surprise if the pavement tracks that still enjoy some success get together and discuss rules. In fact, some already have. The MSPA was always about sharing marketing idea's and promotors getting to know each other more than an avenue to discuss rules. Yes, the UMP rules on dirt have worked well and in the future, finally, some progress can be made for the pavement. See Ya!

The MSPA was never a racer group. They are for the MSPA not the racer. Maybe it is really a price fixing club for them. We racers have no say in anything.

I have been to MSPA meetings and contrary to what Mod911 wants to believe they are out for everyone involved.I have sat through meetings with them about everything from rules to concession pricing.MSPA is made up of tracks in Michigan it is a fourm setting so they can get togather to chat about what works and does not in the racing community.If you guys really want to try to make it happen you should just call MSPA and get to the next meeting they are open to all suggestions.

I can not speak for everyone but it takes everyone to make this race thing work from races,tracks,staff,sponsors etc.I'm sure that track promoters do not sit in their office just thinking of a way to make racers spend more money on their equiptment.I can assure you that the MSPA has no hidden adgenda they want short track racing to survive in michigan as much as the racers themselves.



P.s. Think of this for a moment have you ever saw a promoter in Michigan get rich from running a track in the last 10 years???they do it because they love the sport also.I know most do not want to hear that.



Bill Cryderman
2007 MARFC Promoter of the year.

Maybe there wouldn't be any negative talk about the MSPA if they were more visible and actually did something. Most of these organizations these days just seem to be paper tigers with no clout and no direction! The only time I see anything about the MSPA is when I look at certain dirt track's rules and then when you dig deeper, they really aren't even the same track to track.

BTW, I can assure you that Berlin is not an MSPA track and I would question a few that are supposedly on the list of member tracks.

It's odd you should say that. I don't know about the meeting held this Spring, but they were there last year.

That list on the website isn't up to date. Springport was a member last year, but they never put the Springport logo on the site.

-Maurice

Other than the 1st post, this thread is a good example why it hasnt happened. Instead of taking care of the WHY it isnt working, in ends up being about the who. ME ME ME , BLAH BLAH BLAH!. Loacal tracks need their local racers. But they also should be able to venture out without a hassle if they need a change of scenery for a nite . You know whats fun? When you get a few racers together and venture out to a different track when their track is not running their class that nite . Pretty hard to do with the issues at hand.

MSPA = Michigan Speedway "Promoters" Association
This is a group for promoters of promoters.
Lobby your tracks promoter to work with MSPA for a standardized playing field.
However, unless the individual promoters see this as a win win for them it will never happen.

Maybe a new association like MSRA Michigan Speedway Racers Association needs to be formed.
It would have to function some what like IMCA and would have to give the racers and promoters a bang for the buck so to speak.
It would entail all drivers to belong and pay dues and all promoters to agree to enforce the rules written by MSRA.

I think one would be asking for a miracle.

I can assure you that both Berlin and Dixie are members of the MSPA and do attend the meetings. Since MARFC is an associatte member of the MSPA I am priveliged to attend those meetings twice a year and I do. I know that Berlin was there because I sat behind Mike Strevel and Bob Marz. I also know that Dixie was there because I sat with Mike Kern and his publicity guy at lunch. That list is not perfectly up to date but is pretty close.

Many of the states promoters are there at each and every meeting and I have been fortunate enough to garner a better understanding of what the promoters go through in order to keep a racing facility alive and running so that they can provide an avenue for the fans and the racers to enjoy this great sport and at the same time make it profitable enough to earn a living or at least keep the doors open and pay the bills.

Standardized rules would be great but we must remember that to standardize everything would require nearly everyone to change something and change costs money and sometimes cars, then how much crabbing and complaining would there be when one tracks cars only need to change a few inexpensive items while another tracks cars have to change or be obsoleted to be a street stock or a sportsman or a whatever division they are trying to be. It is not as easy as it sounds. Each individual track has tailored thier rules to suit thier general area and the cars it presently draws as regulars. Changing that would be tough.

There are many good conversations and ideas shared by the promoters attending the MSPA Meetings and I won't be repeating them but I will say that the promoters do care about the racers, they care about the fans, and they care about the sport.

Perhaps there would need to several classes of rules represented. Not every track would run every class.
There would have to be some grandfather issues to allow some classes to evolve into the new format.

Hey Rob,

Berlin has been a member for quite awhile. Mike Strevel and Bob Marz, both Berlin staff members, have attended the meetings for at least the last two years. Can't say how long before that as I did not attend prior to that.

Sue